(November 2, 2023 at 7:23 am)The Architect Of Fate Wrote:

(November 2, 2023 at 7:18 am)FrustratedFool Wrote: Laying aside the armchair psychologists and casual queerphobic bigotry, Arcade there has therapists and they encourage them in their object relationship.  This is normal with OS who have mental health professionals working with them.  My own sex and relationship therapist was supportive of my OS lovers, and this is normal practice.

Again queer people are nothing like this person so no there is no bigotry present I'm afraid. Those therapists apparently need therapists themselves then. Also I'm not an arm psychologist I'm a real one and if a patient told me they were in love with a arcade machine there would be some sessions in their future.

I feel for your patients. No mental health professional I've worked with or spoken to has expressed your attitude, or would comment on someone needing therapy the way you have done about someone on a YT short.

I also feel you are coming across as quite bigoted here. That's a shame.

(November 2, 2023 at 7:24 am)The Architect Of Fate Wrote:

(November 2, 2023 at 7:21 am)FrustratedFool Wrote: Many lgbtq+ and asexual groups I've been part of do not see it as insulting at all.  A couple of asexual sexologists I've discussed the issue with see OS as non-allonormative and thus falling under the ace umbrella.  Given that fictosexuality is already a fairly established microlabel under the ace umbrella, this is not surprising.  Likewise, it wasn't sulrising for me to meet my first ficto and OS friends on AVEN.  Many OS are ace as well (and many ace are trans, NBi and/or bi). I am not cis and not heterosexual myself.

Well it's a silly comparison 

Only to you. Are you lgbtq+?

(November 1, 2023 at 2:35 pm)FrustratedFool Wrote:

(November 1, 2023 at 2:31 pm)GrandizerII Wrote: Debatable. I'm of the belief that reciprocation of love enhances it.

We could tease apart the love itself from the reciprocal element (laying aside the illusion of reciprocity).  So I can experience reciprocity separate from love.  

Love plus reciprocity is better than love on its own, I totally agree.  But the love element is the same emotion, I can assure you.  Love, as in the bare emotion, is the same thing.  The details around it vary quite a lot, as they do for all relationships.

I guess until you have the experience of both human love and objectum love it's hard for people to compare and assess.  But many objectums are not exclusive objectums and have human relationships too (both the OS in the video shorts I posted above have human love relationships, for example) and yet use the same word and expressions to describe both and if asked will tell you it feels largely the same.  It does for me: certainly enough to unhesitatingly call both love.

I'm not disputing whether what you experience is love towards an object. Do whatever you want, it's your life and you decide what you want to do with it. I'm just suggesting that reciprocation of love may be more impactful than what is being suggested. It's my belief that reciprocation of love actually makes me love the other person even more and feel even more connected to them. I think maybe it has to do with pheromones being sent both ways. But I could be mistaken.

(November 2, 2023 at 7:22 am)FrustratedFool Wrote:

(November 2, 2023 at 7:18 am)The Architect Of Fate Wrote: Nope what they experience is a false belief that something that cannot love and cannot feel loves them. That's simply their imagination.

I'm not disagreeing with that.  Hence why I use the terms psuedo-relationship and illusory reciprocity.  But the love sensation is really, as is the sexual attraction.  Love is love.

It's not a pseudo-relationship it's not a relationship period. Also, love is love within reasonable bounds. Even the people who thought up that slogan were clear on that.

(November 2, 2023 at 7:25 am)FrustratedFool Wrote:

(November 2, 2023 at 7:24 am)The Architect Of Fate Wrote: Well it's a silly comparison 

Only to you.  Are you lgbtq+?

No to any right-thinking person who can use their brain and yes I'm Bi.

(November 2, 2023 at 7:25 am)FrustratedFool Wrote:

(November 2, 2023 at 7:23 am)The Architect Of Fate Wrote: Again queer people are nothing like this person so no there is no bigotry present I'm afraid. Those therapists apparently need therapists themselves then. Also I'm not an arm psychologist I'm a real one and if a patient told me they were in love with a arcade machine there would be some sessions in their future.

I feel for your patients.  No mental health professional I've worked with or spoken to has expressed your attitude, or would comment on someone needing therapy the way you have done about someone on a YT short.

I also feel you are coming across as quite bigoted here.  That's a shame.

My patients are fine thanks I have I excellent track record. Well, those people have not been doing their job then and I pity their patients. And bigoted lol 

(November 2, 2023 at 7:26 am)GrandizerII Wrote:

(November 1, 2023 at 2:35 pm)FrustratedFool Wrote: We could tease apart the love itself from the reciprocal element (laying aside the illusion of reciprocity).  So I can experience reciprocity separate from love.  

Love plus reciprocity is better than love on its own, I totally agree.  But the love element is the same emotion, I can assure you.  Love, as in the bare emotion, is the same thing.  The details around it vary quite a lot, as they do for all relationships.

I guess until you have the experience of both human love and objectum love it's hard for people to compare and assess.  But many objectums are not exclusive objectums and have human relationships too (both the OS in the video shorts I posted above have human love relationships, for example) and yet use the same word and expressions to describe both and if asked will tell you it feels largely the same.  It does for me: certainly enough to unhesitatingly call both love.

I'm not disputing whether what you experience is love towards an object. Do whatever you want, it's your life and you decide what you want to do with it. I'm just suggesting that reciprocation of love may be more impactful than what is being suggested. It's my belief that reciprocation of love actually makes me love the other person even more and feel even more connected to them. I think maybe it has to do with pheromones being sent both ways. But I could be mistaken.

I'm glad we agree it's real love.
Relationships with humans certainly have a different 'flavour', but both are 'ice-cream'. There are advantages and disadvantages to both types of 'relationship'. As for the emotion, love is nuanced and complex and rarely static within the same relationship let alone between relationships, so it's hard to talk about. In some ways the love for my inorganic partners is more intense and pure, but also more simple and basic. The love I have for my human lover is more muted in intensity, but more rich and variated in complexity.

(November 2, 2023 at 7:27 am)The Architect Of Fate Wrote:

(November 2, 2023 at 7:25 am)FrustratedFool Wrote: Only to you.  Are you lgbtq+?

No to any right-thinking person who can use their brain and yes I'm Bi.

Ah, so right-thinking people think like you and you only. All the doctors, psychologists, psychiatrists, sexologists, counsellors, therapists, lgbtq+ advocates, and so on I've spoken to over the years on this issue aren't right minded like you. OK. Well, we will have to agree to disagree. I will continue with my sexuality, I will continue to advocate for OS folk, and I expect that in time OS will just be another part of the lgbtq+ umbrella that only bigots will care about.

(November 2, 2023 at 7:21 am)Angrboda Wrote:

(November 2, 2023 at 7:18 am)The Architect Of Fate Wrote: Nope what they experience is a false belief that something that cannot love and cannot feel loves them. That's simply their imagination.

This sounds not unlike the type of talk from advocates of the position that marriage can only be between a man and a woman, and anything else weakens marriage.

Lol nope just pointing out the fact relationships are between sentient entities, not sentient entities and unthinking objects