"agree that dogmatic belief is the culprit but I'm not sure how you can generate faith while cynically constructing and promoting known falsehoods"

We do it all the time...lol. Im not so sure how we manage it either, but we obviously do.

"We might begin by acknowledging that there is in fact within us a capacity to perceive connections and significance greater than that which we wield with our conscious left brain. We can hope to be open to its wisdom."

As long as we really scrutinize whether or not those perceived connections actually exist, whether or not it's wisdom or fantasies of wisdom. Fantasy in service of reality, never the other way around, and we need to give it everything we've got to make sure that we're correctly labeling the two, or else we'd end up creating another pile of useless bullshit.

Blam you should probably just stop right there and leave on a high note.

Gravity is not a physical force. Forces manifest themselves physically by acting on physical objects. Much like consciousness. The interaction of consciousness on physical objects is what one would call perception or reality. Physical objects are created by universal forces, but the forces themselves are not physical in nature. I challenge you to trap gravity or consciousnessinside a box for observation.

Is there an enclosed staircase where you live Amker? Would that qualify as a "box" for you? I assure you, there's some gravity in that box that you can "experiment" with. While you're there, you'd also have consciousness "trapped" in the same box, if your own head wasn't enough of a "box" for you. Again, you can experiment with your consciousness....very easy to do with certain choice substances. You mentioned this whole discussion began due to a paper you were writing? I have serious doubts about that now, as you don't seem to have ever stepped foot in a classroom......

Two birds one stone, you could swan dive off of those stairs, and you'll have conducted an experiment in both gravity and consciousness. Obviously, I hope you don't do this, I just wanted to provide you with a very descriptive example of just how stupid what you decided to post actually is.

(December 22, 2011 at 2:34 pm)Rhythm Wrote: Is there an enclosed staircase where you live Amker? Would that qualify as a "box" for you? I assure you, there's some gravity in that box that you can "experiment" with. You mentioned this whole discussion began due to a paper you were writing? I have serious doubts about that now, as you don't seem to have ever stepped foot in a classroom......

Why does it not follow that gravity isn't physical? It is a force - which acts on physical entities - thus it is only observable when physical things exist. He made no wrong statement.

(December 22, 2011 at 2:34 pm)Rhythm Wrote: Is there an enclosed staircase where you live Amker? Would that qualify as a "box" for you? I assure you, there's some gravity in that box that you can "experiment" with. While you're there, you'd also have consciousness "trapped" in the same box, if your own head wasn't enough of a "box" for you. Again, you can experiment with your consciousness....very easy to do with certain choice substances. You mentioned this whole discussion began due to a paper you were writing? I have serious doubts about that now, as you don't seem to have ever stepped foot in a classroom......

I think Amkerman is referring to gravity being a dent in four dimensional space time rather than being akin to magnetism or electrical forces.

If so he has a kind of point that gravity is different, not sure what difference it makes though.

You could only experiment on how those forces acted on physical particles or things that were in the box, you could manipulate the physical objects, but not the gravity. The gravity would not be trapped inside a box. gravity would still acting on the box itself, on the room where the box was, on the world, and on the universe. You can not separate gravity from itself. The laws of gravity are constant. They do not change. If one observes a change in the laws of gravity with respect to physical objects under certain circumstances, the laws of gravity are not believed to have actually changed, instead our knowledge of the laws of gravity is believed to have expanded. I have for the most part decided to not respond to you anymore unless you are just so far from what is accepted as true that it warrants your own edification. You have decided to be contrary with me for a while now. If I said the sky was blue you would likely try to come up with an argument to refute that position.

Have fun. That is quite enough word work for a while. I'm off to walk the dogs and then I'll spend the rest work/play'ing in my garden.

(December 22, 2011 at 2:43 pm)amkerman Wrote: You could only experiment on how those forces acted on physical particles or things that were in the box, you could manipulate the physical objects, but not the gravity. The gravity would not be trapped inside a box. gravity would still acting on the box itself, on the room where the box was, on the world, and on the universe. You can not separate gravity from itself. The laws of gravity are constant. They do not change. If one observes a change in the laws of gravity with respect to physical objects under certain circumstances, the laws of gravity are not believed to have actually changed, instead our knowledge of the laws of gravity is believed to have expanded. I have for the most part decided to not respond to you anymore unless you are just so far from what is accepted as true that it warrants your own edification. You have decided to be contrary with me for a while now. If I said the sky was blue you would likely try to come up with an argument to refute that position.

Ok, just to make sure we are on the same page, what are the laws of gravity as you understand them?

Ruh-roh ...

(December 22, 2011 at 2:24 pm)amkerman Wrote: Blam you should probably just stop right there and leave on a high note.

Gravity is not a physical force. Forces manifest themselves physically by acting on physical objects. Much like consciousness. The interaction of consciousness on physical objects is what one would call perception or reality. Physical objects are created by universal forces, but the forces themselves are not physical in nature. I challenge you to trap gravity or consciousnessinside a box for observation.

Why do you have to make the baseless claims like "gravity is under influence of god" or "gravity has consciousness" shit? Really, you challenge me with claims even without slightest evidence?

Seriously? ಠ_ಠ