(June 20, 2024 at 1:43 pm)Ahriman Wrote: I wouldn't. But our reasons for finding him evil and for finding him good are probably the same.

Probably not.

Boru

He makes too much money, but that would be a stupid reason to hate him. I would sooner criticize the fact that he isn't telling anyone anything that would actually help them. I doubt he would even know anything about that. Dude seems a bit.....uncanny, I'll put it that way. I don't believe for a second that what he has done for people merits the amount of money he has.

(June 20, 2024 at 3:36 pm)Ahriman Wrote: He makes too much money, but that would be a stupid reason to hate him. I would sooner criticize the fact that he isn't telling anyone anything that would actually help them. I doubt he would even know anything about that. Dude seems a bit.....uncanny, I'll put it that way. I don't believe for a second that what he has done for people merits the amount of money he has.

Ok. Anything else?

Boru

Quote:If language is not essential for thought, then what is language for?

Communication?

Boru

(June 20, 2024 at 7:18 pm)BrianSoddingBoru4 Wrote:

Quote:If language is not essential for thought, then what is language for?

Communication?

Boru

Nah, even then it isn't necessary.

(June 20, 2024 at 7:35 pm)Ahriman Wrote:

(June 20, 2024 at 7:18 pm)BrianSoddingBoru4 Wrote: Communication?

Boru

Nah, even then it isn't necessary.

I didn’t say it was necessary. I said that’s what it is for.

Boru

(June 20, 2024 at 6:53 pm)Angrboda Wrote: Do We Need Language to Think?

Quote:When Dr. Fedorenko began this work in 2009, studies had found that the same brain regions required for language were also active when people reasoned or carried out arithmetic.

But Dr. Fedorenko and other researchers discovered that this overlap was a mirage. Part of the trouble with the early results was that the scanners were relatively crude. Scientists made the most of their fuzzy scans by combining the results from all their volunteers, creating an overall average of brain activity.

In her own research, Dr. Fedorenko used more powerful scanners and ran more tests on each volunteer. Those steps allowed her and her colleagues to gather enough data from each person to create a fine-grained picture of an individual brain.

The scientists then ran studies to pinpoint brain circuits that were involved in language tasks, such as retrieving words from memory and following rules of grammar. In a typical experiment, volunteers read gibberish, followed by real sentences. The scientists discovered certain brain regions that became active only when volunteers processed actual language.
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Each volunteer had a language network — a constellation of regions that become active during language tasks. “It’s very stable,” Dr. Fedorenko said. “If I scan you today, and 10 or 15 years later, it’s going to be in the same place.”

The researchers then scanned the same people as they performed different kinds of thinking, such as solving a puzzle. “Other regions in the brain are working really hard when you’re doing all these forms of thinking,” she said. But the language networks stayed quiet. “It became clear that none of those things seem to engage language circuits,” she said.

In a paper published Wednesday in Nature, Dr. Fedorenko and her colleagues argued that studies of people with brain injuries point to the same conclusion.

Strokes and other forms of brain damage can wipe out the language network, leaving people struggling to process words and grammar, a condition known as aphasia. But scientists have discovered that people can still do algebra and play chess even with aphasia. In experiments, people with aphasia can look at two numbers — 123 and 321, say — and recognize that, by using the same pattern, 456 should be followed by 654.

If language is not essential for thought, then what is language for?

I'd suspect that mathematics is a different kind of language. I remember when doing homework and tests in physics and math topics that my hearing went away, and I didn't hear my inner voice. Listening to music while doing homework, after I solved a problem I would notice that I hadn't heard any music for some amount of time. Many of the people who I worked with also experienced it when programming. We call it "The Zone".

(June 20, 2024 at 9:03 pm)Fireball Wrote:

(June 20, 2024 at 6:53 pm)Angrboda Wrote: Do We Need Language to Think?

I'd suspect that mathematics is a different kind of language. I remember when doing homework and tests in physics and math topics that my hearing went away, and I didn't hear my inner voice. Listening to music while doing homework, after I solved a problem I would notice that I hadn't heard any music for some amount of time. Many of the people who I worked with also experienced it when programming. We call it "The Zone".

Would be nice if we could enter that state and just stay in it, permanently.

(June 20, 2024 at 9:03 pm)Fireball Wrote:

(June 20, 2024 at 6:53 pm)Angrboda Wrote: Do We Need Language to Think?

I'd suspect that mathematics is a different kind of language.

Ye and without the inherited shared language no one would get very far in any field.