Then you have a demonstrably false religious belief. It is always possible that any piece of literature has been made by humans.

Is this a you problem, or is this an islam problem? Are you wrong in fact, or is islam wrong in fact?

(July 15, 2024 at 11:17 pm)The Grand Nudger Wrote: Then you have a demonstrably false religious belief.  It is always possible that any piece of literature has been made by humans.  

Is this a you problem, or is this an islam problem?  Are you wrong in fact, or is islam wrong in fact?

"It is always possible that any piece of literature has been made by humans."

This is your statement. If you believe with your statement, then you should show me in which verses that Quran was made by human? By who and when?

"Is this a you problem, or is this an islam problem?  Are you wrong in fact, or is islam wrong in fact?"

Well, it has no problem at all actually. Why did you thing that "The Quran was not made by human" is problem? I guess it's because not inline with your "no God" belief.

Doesn't have anything to do with gods. In a hypothetical world where god exists, is your god, and did write every jot and tittle of the quran..it would still be true that it were possible for humans to have written it. Do you think that islam is a religion with false beliefs, or that you as a muslim may sometimes make exaggerated claims?

The burden is always for the one making the positive claim of unnatural means. In a world where all writing is produced by humans, it is the burden of the believer to prove that religious writing was magicked into existence.

Yet, there exists absolutely no evidence of the latter.

[quote pid='2204174' dateline='1720981824']

Quote:So, my postulation (which is God) has meet the same qualities with living creatures in observed nature, and your postulation (matter) never proved can't produce any living creatures. While we all know that living creatures exist in universe.

You have fabricated those qualities for your jewish god.
My magic black box that I postulated can pump out living creatures as well. It doesn’t mean that it truly possess such qualities. For now, the god claim and the magic black box are both just claims.
Evidence is required to support such a claim.
Note that it is possible that the jewish god exists and that the magic black box exists and they never made any lifeforms.

[/quote]

Well, actually I just give in my previous postulation, that it is for seeking "the possibility of the qualities of the fundamental stuff" based on observation in nature.

But, it's ok if you want to shift it to another free context. 

"Note that it is possible that the jewish god exists and that the magic black box exists and they never made any lifeforms."


Yes, it could be. But life forms turned out to emerge in our universe.

"Evidence is required to support such a claim"

I've said to you that He couldn't possibly be seen in our universe right now. So I hope you accept that "the evidence is not about the physical entity of Him". if you hear a voice behind some room and you didn't yet know who was behind the room, I guess you still accept that there is someone behind that room. If you found a biology book but didn't know the author, you 100 % sure that the book is authored by someone.

Now I will tell you that this God is not a claim, 

The evidence is: 
There was Quran emerge in universe/history that mention that God itself creating all the universe. Also, God in Quran state that He are unseen, living forever, has idea, has purpose, omnipotent, and omniscience. This Quran, which in it God claimed that he made it, after thoroughly scientific research, has no evidence that it was made by humans nor being changed by humans. So that the only conclusion is true that God itself made it. Thus the evidence is the words of God (Quran) that had been written.

Now what if I use magical box as a claim:
No words evidence (which was claimed came from magical box itself) stated that magic box exist, and mentioned that magical box itself creating all the universe. So this claim never emerge in history and universe. Thus, this is only imagination.

(July 15, 2024 at 11:34 pm)The Grand Nudger Wrote: Doesn't have anything to do with gods.  In a hypothetical world where god exists, is your god, and did write every jot and tittle of the quran..it would still be true that it were possible for humans to have written it.  Do you think that islam is a religion with false beliefs, or that you as a muslim may sometimes make exaggerated claims?

"it would still be true that it were possible for humans to have written it"
but the problem is you cannot find it with the Quran I guess.

Of course Islam is a true belief and muslim did not make exaggerated claims. 
The problem is someone who doesn't know and not studying Islam make such false assumptions.

The problem is thinking that which is in the Quran is true.

(July 16, 2024 at 12:31 am)soulcalm17 Wrote:

(July 15, 2024 at 11:34 pm)The Grand Nudger Wrote: Doesn't have anything to do with gods.  In a hypothetical world where god exists, is your god, and did write every jot and tittle of the quran..it would still be true that it were possible for humans to have written it.  Do you think that islam is a religion with false beliefs, or that you as a muslim may sometimes make exaggerated claims?

"it would still be true that it were possible for humans to have written it"
but the problem is you cannot find it with the Quran I guess.

Of course Islam is a true belief and muslim did not make exaggerated claims. 
The problem is someone who doesn't know and not studying Islam make such false assumptions.

It's only a problem if you keep insisting.  This literally has nothing to do with me, whether or not gods exist, or what anyone knows about islam.  The idea that it would be impossible for humans to have written the quran is plainly and absurdly false.  This is either a you problem..or an islam problem.  Correctable without damage to the religion of islam by correcting yourself.  Or not correctable without damage to islam because islam itself is in error.  

It looks like you've decided what hill islam has to die on. I think, that you should rethink this position.

(July 15, 2024 at 9:10 pm)soulcalm17 Wrote:

(July 15, 2024 at 12:25 pm)Nay_Sayer Wrote: The Quran is a book. No different than my holy book.  

However my Book is the only one and true book of the one and only true creator of all things all other faiths are false, It says so in the book.

How do you suppose we resolve this?

Then show me the rational evidence that your holy book is impossible come from human. Like I did. So simple

I just did. My book is the only one true holy book, it says so in my book.

Besides, You have to have faith.

My FSM lead you to the light. RAmen

(July 16, 2024 at 2:31 am)Nay_Sayer Wrote: I just did. My book is the only one true holy book, it says so in my book.

Besides, You have to have faith.

My FSM lead you to the light. RAmen

Where is it? No explanation. No point to talk then.