(August 5, 2024 at 3:45 pm)Paleophyte Wrote: Or it's possible that the universe is eternal and that the Big Bang is simply the furthest back that we can see with current technology.

This is what I believe.

(August 6, 2024 at 9:54 am)Sheldon Wrote: Magic
noun
1. the power of apparently influencing events by using mysterious or supernatural forces.

Do we really need to poll the atheists here, to see if a single one believes this is even possible, never mind that it must explain the origins of the universe? So we can add a straw man fallacy to @soulcalm17 list of irrational arguments.

I'd also insist now that he explains in detail with supporting objective evidence:

1. How is a deity possible?
2. How did a deity create the universe?

If he can't do this, then he is the one positing magic.

If it is the definition of magic, I'm not ashamed to accept it. The mysterious or supernatural forces is still the explanation of causing something.
I can not show you how The mysterious or supernatural being did it. Because as I post, This Entity is outside our 3 dimension world, and theoretically, it can influence all thing although creatures in 3 dimension cannot see it. As a Neil deGrasse said, 4th dimensional being can see all of our body in detail, include what inside our body. And it just can do surgery without even cut our body, more over if The Being is in higher than 4th dimension. So indeed it's like mystic mysterious act happened. And it is possible in physics theory. 

1. How is a deity possible : 
    I already explained it many times by rational evidence.
2. How did a deity create the universe? : 
    Because The Deity is outside 3 dimensional universe, not bounded by time, of course He is different with creatures/things in our 3 dimensional universe. And It not necessarily need      any things/tools to do such things for him. Only the will from himself and just said the words, and universe started to form and processed. (Note that we can not do like God did in        our universe, because we are creatures and bounded by spacetime in our 3 dimensional world. So, we needs tools to make anything). The process of universe, we can still see it        now and we, by science can conclude how it was started.

FYI, my definition of magic with my post before is: something that have beginning that exist itself without any reason/explanation. Just "poof" it's exist.

I love it. Something that never began to exist, and doesn't exist in this world. You can't possibly realize how much that sounds like something that would come out of a godless atheists mouth.

(August 6, 2024 at 10:57 pm)soulcalm17 Wrote:

(August 6, 2024 at 9:54 am)Sheldon Wrote: Magic
noun
1. the power of apparently influencing events by using mysterious or supernatural forces.

Do we really need to poll the atheists here, to see if a single one believes this is even possible, never mind that it must explain the origins of the universe? So we can add a straw man fallacy to @soulcalm17 list of irrational arguments.

I'd also insist now that he explains in detail with supporting objective evidence:

1. How is a deity possible?
2. How did a deity create the universe?

If he can't do this, then he is the one positing magic.

If it is the definition of magic, I'm not ashamed to accept it. 

Shouldn't you make a beeping sound when back up that quickly? So your claim assigning a belief in magic to atheists was a straw man fallacy, and what's worse you now admit that you're the one who believes in magic, dear oh dear...

Quote:soulcalm17

I would prefer believe in unseen entity that have those qualities rather than believe in unknown magic that has no rational explanation.

Leaving aside your previous straw man fallacy, you now appear to be contradicting yourself, and professing yourself content to hold an irrational belief in magic. 

Quote:The mysterious or supernatural forces is still the explanation of causing something

A mystery is inexplicable BY DEFINITION. You seem to be reeling off irrational contradictions now?

Quote:The mysterious or supernatural forces is still the explanation of causing something. I can not show you how The mysterious or supernatural being did it. 

An explanation you can't offer a single word of explanation for, seriously? Do you even read this before posting it? 

Quote:As a Neil deGrasse said, 

He's an outspoken atheist, so nothing he's said supports your claims here, that's axiomatic.

Quote:FYI, my definition of magic with my post before is: something that have beginning that exist itself without any reason/explanation. Just "poof" it's exist.

That is not remotely how magic is defined, so this attempt to move the goalposts by redefining magic with the way you define a deity, is beyond ironic. 

I have no real interest in listing all your unevidenced claims anymore, as you seem to simply skip passed these objections to post more, that's preaching not debate. 

(August 6, 2024 at 11:08 pm)The Grand Nudger Wrote: I love it.  Something that never began to exist, and doesn't exist in this world.  You can't possibly realize how much that sounds like something that would come out of a godless atheists mouth.

The idea of something existing that never existed seems so absurd to me that I personally believe that space time must have always existed.

I don't think soulcalm17 personally has a problem with magic, I think they just thought we do and might back away from our position if he could convince us that ours involved magic.

They'll say anything, and it means nothing.

(August 2, 2024 at 7:25 am)Angrboda Wrote:

(August 2, 2024 at 7:07 am)BrianSoddingBoru4 Wrote: @Belacqua


It doesn’t and it shouldn’t. A majority opinion has nothing to do credibility.

Boru

Oh c'mon.  You pull into a town and there's a bunch of cars parked at one restaurant and basically none at others.  Where are you going to eat?

The one with fewer cars. I hate queueing up for a meal.

But seriously, I have no way of knowing the tastes of the people at the busier restaurant - people may be flocking there for pizza. They may be eating there because it’s cheap.

Either way, the busier a restaurant is doesn’t guarantee that I’ll like it, or that it’s objectively the ‘better’ eatery.

Boru

This is my last response. One thing for sure: in afterlife you all will know that God is there. And He will do justice. It will be hard for non believers in that day. I am here to remind you, as Allah order all muslims to remind humankind. My advice, try to read The Quran. Hope you will get the truth. May Allah gives guidance to all of you.

Thank you for your attentions. I will leaving this group.

(August 8, 2024 at 4:04 am)soulcalm17 Wrote: This is my last response. One thing for sure: in afterlife you all will know that God is there. And He will do justice. It will be hard for non believers in that day. I am here to remind you, as Allah order all muslims to remind humankind. My advice, try to read The Quran. Hope you will get the truth. May Allah gives guidance to all of you.

Thank you for your attentions. I will leaving this group.

Thank you for the departing threat. Typical.

Boru