(August 28, 2024 at 11:09 am)h311inac311 Wrote: So it's almost as if humans are something more than an animal, no?

I don't think so, no.   Though it doesn't seem to me like it would matter to the moral question whether we were or weren't.  We are either animals with a moral sense or "other x"s with a moral sense?

Quote:You're saying that people have developed a capacity for moral reasoning, if what you're saying is true then wouldn't that count as evidence that our designer gave us some of his ability to Judge?

I'd say still developing, even, sure..and no.  That wouldn't be evidence that there's any designer, or that any designer gave us abilities - nor would the answers to those questions resolve the moral question.

Quote:Should we is a different question. Should we eat any food at all? It would seem that those who fast receive a blessing from God, so it is good in his sight to abstain from any food or drink so as to, "hunger and thirst after righteousness."

But we are allowed to and we are allowed to think about what this means for our species, In my view God wants to use death as a reminder for our ultimate end. Death entered into this world through sin, this means that it is our responsibility to become a master over it.

Yes, exactly, the moral question has nothing to do with those things.  Here we finally find some begining of an answer.  In your view, god did give us permission to do a bad thing, which he would apparently prefer we not do, not just with animals, but with anything - because he likes us hungry.  Because it uses death to teach us something.  Thus, it is god that is both proximately and ultimately responsible for this moral or natural evil.  

Quote:"Sin is crouching at your doorstep, waiting to devour you as a wild beast devours its un-suspecting prey. If you do well, will God not be pleased?"

Death is our ultimate end, is it bad or good? Is it good that one animal should die so that another may live?

A good question, I suppose, if death is on the table as a negotiable.  Even in the hypothetical designer scenario you have in mind it's clear that god didn't -have- to make things this way.  Herbivory and autotrophy also exist.  OFC, this is all completely natural.  A supernatural god would not in theory be limited to creating such an outcome through natural means - and yet here we are.   Thus god had the ability, and the choice - the only element we're missing for moral responsibility is whether or not god is a moral agent. Does it know right from wrong? Is it more like us, or more like other animals..in that regard?

So...is it good that some creatures have to die so that some other creatures may live..and if it isn't, who's morally responsible for that situation, in your view?

Do you believe that you deserve to live in the garden of Eden?

I'm not interested in dating your boyfriend or going double to the party with you - but the answers to those questions do not answer the moral question. One which you yourself brought up?

^You ask if we should eat food. It's sort of necessary to keep on living, doncha think?

I’m told vegans consume a lot of kale, so here’s a tip: if you add a splash of coconut oil to your kale while cooking, it makes it much easier to scrape into the bin.

Boru

(August 28, 2024 at 11:38 am)h311inac311 Wrote: Do you believe that you deserve to live in the garden of Eden?

As much as I deserve to live in Hobbiton or the Emerald City.

Boru

(August 28, 2024 at 11:42 am)The Grand Nudger Wrote: I'm not interested in dating your boyfriend or going double to the party with you - but the answers to those questions do not answer the moral question.  One which you yourself brought up?

Are we going to have this discussion or are you going to keep disrupting it intentionally?

You asked why God would allow for what you refer to as an imperfect world, 
am I wrong for putting this question into your mouth?

You told me that your god gave us permission to do bad things, my guy. I have no questions whatsoever. I'll take you at your word that this is what you believe.

Do you want to define what you mean by bad?

Of course my God gave us permission to do bad things, why do you think he gave us commandments?

And yes, that is exactly what I believe, whatever you mean by bad I feel safe with. Yes, God gave us the ability to choose to do what is wrong in his sight. As well as what is wrong in anyone or all people's sight. Nothing is out of our reach, so long as we can avoid the consequences.

Do we deserve to live in a perfect world? Do we deserve to live in a world where we can defy our parents, the religious authorities appointed over us, our government as well as anyone else who gives us an opinion on morality that we don't agree with and then claim that we deserve to live in a world free from consequences?

As it is written. 

"For the Lord disciplines the one he loves, 
and chastises every son whom he receives."