(Yesterday at 2:41 am)AB Caro Wrote: The ability to stay neutral is enviable indeed, too bad I’m bothered by negativity (pressures, guilt, shame, etc) spoiling positivity (the hedonism) as opposed to the delusional private utopia in my signature.

(Yesterday at 2:17 am)AB Caro Wrote: Have you ever been at certain workplaces that ask you to do overtime work outside of work hours on work nights, or during weekends? Whether it’s paid or unpaid, it’s still stealing time that could’ve been used for leisure.

Yes, very much so. I worked at a big art gallery in NYC, and once a month when we installed a new exhibit it was often necessary to work all night to get one show taken down and the other put up on time. Then I worked a while in academia, and that was full of "voluntary" (i.e. required) dinners and meetings and things like that. I took the job because I enjoy what happens in the classroom, but it ended up that class was the least important thing. 

So since then I've taught privately, and sometimes I've annoyed my students by refusing extra-curricular stuff. I make it clear that we start at the start time and stop at the stop time. This is considered especially odd here in Japan, where the tradition of lifetime employment often meant that your work occupied 24/7. 

Quote:That aside, don’t you have family members or colleagues or whoever who might try to, for example, make you do something you don’t enjoy just for their benefit? Well they’re entitled to do what they want, but instead of doing it themselves they can try to make you join. Like proselytizing religious family members that demand I still join their weekly worship, worse if they sit near me to make sure I can’t distract myself. If they really enjoy the benefits of religion they could’ve went by themselves without dragging anyone else into it, but some individuals are too unlucky to be born into families like this. What a way to steal someone else’s free time!

Normally I would say that family is different from work, because it's good to share time with people you love. Even if you're just keeping them company during something they're required to do. But I would NOT put up with regular church-going. People who demand that of you should really be more considerate. 

But as I think about it, I've been pretty selfish in this sense -- or maybe we could say I've been protective of my hedonistic time. Because I have organized things to have more self-determined time than most people, probably. 

Overall I agree with you, that unless we're very strict or very lucky, lots of demands will be placed on our time. As we said before, it's OK to sacrifice time if the long-term rewards are worth it -- but sometimes they're not.

(Yesterday at 2:41 am)AB Caro Wrote:

(Yesterday at 2:33 am)Ahriman Wrote: Honestly no, I don't think so. I don't have hobbies anymore, for that reason.

Are you still unemployed, and if so are you training for an employable skill at the moment?
Also this is the first time I met someone who is…numbed to pleasures. Are you bothered by it, or not? Because if not, then it’s all fine.
The ability to stay neutral is enviable indeed, too bad I’m bothered by negativity (pressures, guilt, shame, etc) spoiling positivity (the hedonism) as opposed to the delusional private utopia in my signature.

How is it that you know Ahri has been/is unemployed?

And why did you switch gears on hobbies?

(Yesterday at 8:33 am)arewethereyet Wrote:

(Yesterday at 2:41 am)AB Caro Wrote: Are you still unemployed, and if so are you training for an employable skill at the moment?
Also this is the first time I met someone who is…numbed to pleasures. Are you bothered by it, or not? Because if not, then it’s all fine.
The ability to stay neutral is enviable indeed, too bad I’m bothered by negativity (pressures, guilt, shame, etc) spoiling positivity (the hedonism) as opposed to the delusional private utopia in my signature.

How is it that you know Ahri has been/is unemployed?

And why did you switch gears on hobbies?

I would also like to know.

(Yesterday at 2:10 am)Ahriman Wrote: I always quit doing something when I realize I can't make money doing it....happened when I tried to learn how to draw, play guitar, play basketball, etc.

(Yesterday at 2:33 am)Ahriman Wrote:

(Yesterday at 2:30 am)AB Caro Wrote: They can make money, it’s just that only the top level pros or at least an advanced level do those things.
For drawing self-promote commissions or print & sell copies of artworks, for guitar perform in a band on top of the practice, for basketball just train to a high level and play frequently, unless your innate abilities make it impossible to do so.

Is your self-pleasure intrinsically tied to how much money you can make? You can’t enjoy just doing hobbies for the sake of doing them even without the money?

Honestly no, I don't think so. I don't have hobbies anymore, for that reason.

These sets of phrases Ahri said are pretty revealing.
“Always quit doing something…can’t make money doing it” + “Don’t have hobbies anymore” means Ahri has given up.
Don’t worry, neither of us knows each other in real life. All I can say is that the phrasing of words can reveal a ton.

(Today at 6:12 am)AB Caro Wrote: These sets of phrases Ahri said are pretty revealing.
“Always quit doing something…can’t make money doing it” + “Don’t have hobbies anymore” means Ahri has given up.
Don’t worry, neither of us knows each other in real life. All I can say is that the phrasing of words can reveal a ton.

I don't know if you or @Ahriman has read Aristotle's Nicomachean Ethics, but the situation here reminds me of something in that book.

For Aristotle, virtue is always a middle path between extremes. In the case of eating it's obvious: a healthy balanced diet is good, but both too much (gluttony) and too little (anorexia) are bad. Likewise misers and spendthrifts are both bad because we should spend our money appropriately. 

In the case of temperance, he says that we should indulge our passions and desires appropriately -- not too much not too little. People who have no self-control become overly indulgent or self-indulgent and harm themselves. The interesting thing, to me, is when he says that very few people are on the other side of the middle way. That is, a lot of people's passions and desires are so strong that they lose control, but no one's desires are so weak that it's a problem. If temperance is in the middle, and self-indulgence is on the left, there is no word for people on the right. 

But I'm thinking that these days there may be quite a few people whose desire is too weak. And I'm not judging Ahriman specifically -- obviously I don't know him well enough for that. But I think there is a type of person who has given up, who isn't full enough of desire to, for example, go out and find a lover. Or get up off the sofa and make money so that he can take a trip or buy a sports car or score cocaine. 

So an insufficiency of desire may also be a thing. And we can think about it as kind of the opposite of self-indulgence, with the ideal being temperance -- appropriate indulgence. This would mean a certain amount of self-rejection, self-sacrifice, etc., but not too much. Naturally Aristotle doesn't tell us what is too much and what is too little -- he just says that if you're wise and good you'll figure it out.

(Yesterday at 2:22 am)AB Caro Wrote: I see that Sheldon is living under the private utopia I typed in my signature. Most lucky indeed, now go back to your private utopia. Not everyone has one.

Well if it helps your fragile ego to ignore responses to your sweeping claims, in favour of vapid passive aggressive point scoring, you go for it. Perhaps honest debate is simply not for you? You seem to have missed my questions as well, ah well my ego is not so fragile it must demand others behave as I want.

(Yesterday at 2:17 am)AB Caro Wrote:

(February 26, 2025 at 10:05 am)Belacqua Wrote: I wonder if you live among especially strict people...?

Most people I know would probably say that if you're not a burden to others and you're not hurting anyone (as you say in your signature) there is leeway in one's spare time. 

So for example if you work five days a week at honest work, will people really tell you not to spend your weekends painting pictures, or practicing the piano?

Have you ever been at certain workplaces that ask you to do overtime work outside of work hours on work nights, or during weekends? Whether it’s paid or unpaid, it’s still stealing time that could’ve been used for leisure.

I don't think stealing means what you think it does, and if I am asked ( and very often am) to work overtime, unsocial or otherwise, then it is at a premium rate to compensate, and if I don't want to, as has been the case on occasions, then I say no. If an employer ever tried to force me, I'd quit and go work somewhere else, I wouldn't bitch about it online. 

Quote:That aside, don’t you have family members or colleagues or whoever who might try to, for example, make you do something you don’t enjoy just for their benefit? Well they’re entitled to do what they want, but instead of doing it themselves they can try to make you join. Like proselytizing religious family members that demand I still join their weekly worship, worse if they sit near me to make sure I can’t distract myself. If they really enjoy the benefits of religion they could’ve went by themselves without dragging anyone else into it, but some individuals are too unlucky to be born into families like this. What a way to steal someone else’s free time!

A false equivalence there, some of my family and the odd friend are theists, they'd get a proper belly laugh if they tried to proselytise me, I suspect they know this as well. Maybe you should take responsibility for your own life, and stop expecting others, and or society to make you happy or content.

(Today at 6:12 am)AB Caro Wrote: These sets of phrases Ahri said are pretty revealing.
“Always quit doing something…can’t make money doing it” + “Don’t have hobbies anymore” means Ahri has given up.
Don’t worry, neither of us knows each other in real life. All I can say is that the phrasing of words can reveal a ton.

bold: Or he's playing you.

(10 hours ago)brewer Wrote:

(Today at 6:12 am)AB Caro Wrote: These sets of phrases Ahri said are pretty revealing.
“Always quit doing something…can’t make money doing it” + “Don’t have hobbies anymore” means Ahri has given up.
Don’t worry, neither of us knows each other in real life. All I can say is that the phrasing of words can reveal a ton.

bold: Or he's playing you.

What would I gain by doing that?