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I will prove to you that God exists
RE: I will prove to you that God exists
(April 5, 2025 at 2:22 pm)Drew_2013 Wrote: I'm a theist but I'm not 100% sure. How can anyone be certain how a universe that caused intelligent life to exist was caused inadvertently by mindless natural forces? 
Lets try again:

1. Why do you think the only two choices are:
a) Certainty no deity created the universe?
b) Belief in a deity? 
2. Do you know what a false dichotomy fallacy is?
3. Do you understand that agnosticism and atheism are not mutually exclusive?
4. Do you know what agnosticism means? (I only ask, as you misrepresented atheism several times)
5. If you don't know whether something is true, is it reasonable to believe it to be so?
6. If you don't know, and so don't believe, that any deity exists, what word(s) best describes you?
7. If some god claims can be disproved, but others not, but you still don't know the latter are true, what word(s) best describe you?
Reply
RE: I will prove to you that God exists
(April 10, 2025 at 11:39 am)Thumpalumpacus Wrote:
(April 10, 2025 at 5:31 am)BrianSoddingBoru4 Wrote: Universes are not laptops. Read your Hume, he debunked this nonsense almost 300 years ago.


And I WILL answer your question: It would be far more magical if an all-powerful Being, operating outside the constraints of time and space, created intelligence in a slipshod fashion than if natural processes did the same thing. We have mountains of evidence for the former, none for the latter.


Boru

Did you get "former" and "latter" mixed up here?

I did. Let’s blame it on sleep deprivation.

Boru
‘I can’t be having with this.’ - Esmeralda Weatherwax
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RE: I will prove to you that God exists
@Drew_2013

Quote:
Quote:The reason atheists are such a minority is because you sell a fish story.

And the reason there are so many theists is that most people are afraid of The Dark©️.

Boru
‘I can’t be having with this.’ - Esmeralda Weatherwax
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RE: I will prove to you that God exists
(April 10, 2025 at 1:07 pm)BrianSoddingBoru4 Wrote:
(April 10, 2025 at 12:32 pm)The Valkyrie Wrote: This is like reading through trying to explain things to a petulant child.

It's almost painful.

Maybe if we give him a glass of milk and a bikkie he’ll calm down.

Boru

In a sippy cup.

Playing Cluedo with my mum while I was at Uni:

"You did WHAT?  With WHO?  WHERE???"
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RE: I will prove to you that God exists
(April 10, 2025 at 1:49 pm)Sheldon Wrote:
(April 5, 2025 at 2:22 pm)Drew_2013 Wrote: I'm a theist but I'm not 100% sure. How can anyone be certain how a universe that caused intelligent life to exist was caused inadvertently by mindless natural forces? 
Lets try again:

1. Why do you think the only two choices are:
a) Certainty no deity created the universe?
b) Belief in a deity? 
2. Do you know what a false dichotomy fallacy is?
3. Do you understand that agnosticism and atheism are not mutually exclusive?
4. Do you know what agnosticism means? (I only ask, as you misrepresented atheism several times)
5. If you don't know whether something is true, is it reasonable to believe it to be so?
6. If you don't know, and so don't believe, that any deity exists, what word(s) best describes you?
7. If some god claims can be disproved, but others not, but you still don't know the latter are true, what word(s) best describe you?

Can we start a betting pool on how many of these questions will be answered?

Boru
‘I can’t be having with this.’ - Esmeralda Weatherwax
Reply
RE: I will prove to you that God exists
(April 10, 2025 at 5:51 pm)BrianSoddingBoru4 Wrote:
(April 10, 2025 at 1:49 pm)Sheldon Wrote: Lets try again:

1. Why do you think the only two choices are:
a) Certainty no deity created the universe?
b) Belief in a deity? 
2. Do you know what a false dichotomy fallacy is?
3. Do you understand that agnosticism and atheism are not mutually exclusive?
4. Do you know what agnosticism means? (I only ask, as you misrepresented atheism several times)
5. If you don't know whether something is true, is it reasonable to believe it to be so?
6. If you don't know, and so don't believe, that any deity exists, what word(s) best describes you?
7. If some god claims can be disproved, but others not, but you still don't know the latter are true, what word(s) best describe you?

Can we start a betting pool on how many of these questions will be answered?

Boru

[Image: OIG1.s_ItXu21aZuKeFQcWCNP?w=1024&h=1024&...ImgDetMain]

*slides everything onto '0' spot*

Come on poppa needs a new pair of shoes
"For the only way to eternal glory is a life lived in service of our Lord, FSM; Verily it is FSM who is the perfect being the name higher than all names, king of all kings and will bestow upon us all, one day, The great reclaiming"  -The Prophet Boiardi-

      Conservative trigger warning.
[Image: s-l640.jpg][Image: shopping?q=tbn:ANd9GcSBjdQ4tzp0y16OBYXxG...s&usqp=CAc]
                                                                                         
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RE: I will prove to you that God exists
(April 10, 2025 at 2:25 pm)BrianSoddingBoru4 Wrote: And the reason there are so many theists is that most people are afraid of The Dark©️.

Odd how many of them are standing around with their eyes closed, hollering "I see the light!"
Reply
RE: I will prove to you that God exists
(April 10, 2025 at 12:02 pm)Drew_2013 Wrote: Do you know of some force inside spacetime that caused spacetime to exist? We have mountains of evidence that natural forces came into existence. That tells us nothing about what caused them to exist or why the myriad of exacting properties and characteristics for life obtained.

All you're demonstrating is that in any epistemological system the root cause has to be treated specially.

Put more simply, if you keep asking "Why" long enough you get to a point where you can't easily find an answer. This is true for everybody regardless of belief. Here's how it goes:

Atheist
Q:Why does the universe exist?
A: Because of the Big Bang.
Q: Why does the Big Bang exist?
A: I don't know.

Theist:
Q:Why does the universe exist?
A: Because of the Big Bang.
Q: Why does the Big Bang exist?
A: God made it.
Q: Why does God exist?
A: I don't know.

Both camps arrive at the same inevitable conclusion, but theists use an extra step that invokes an all-powerful supernatural entity for which there is no evidence and no possible explanation. That step has negative value for a long list of reasons. First and foremost, it cuts the throat of your argument with Occam's razor due to the addition of an infinitely complex and utterly inexplicable entity. It also prevents any further examination by terminating the chain of reasoning in the ineffable. Ending with "Goddunnit" means that mortal minds can inquire no further, which is why the last answer you'll frequently hear from theists isn't an honest "I don't know" but rather a "Die heretic!" By contrast, the atheist, and anybody looking to natural explanations for that matter, can end with, "I don't know yet, but we're still looking." That gets you out into the wilderness of speculative cosmology, but at least there isn't a priest holding a big sign reading "Thou shalt not ask!" The root cause may always terminate at "I don't know" but that's no excuse to stop trying to push back the boundaries.
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RE: I will prove to you that God exists
TL;DR warning: Stable, low-enenergy, high entropy states are thermodynamically preferred and complex emergent systems like life and sentience are more efficient at producing those. This is why the naive calculations of fine-tuning grossly underestimate the number of possible universe in which something with enough wits to make those calculations will emerge.


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RE: I will prove to you that God exists
Put shortly, special pleading. Why entertain it any further?

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