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Current time: August 14, 2025, 7:24 am

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It's A Quote
RE: It's A Quote
(August 12, 2025 at 5:07 am)GrandizerII Wrote:
(August 12, 2025 at 3:54 am)Belacqua Wrote: Currently our method of determining gender is based on this -- the way that an individual experiences himself or herself internally.

Socially, out of respect for the individual, we take their word for it.

Typically, when somebody begins transitioning, they have to go through a pretty rigorous psychological evaluation. It's a multi-year process. This notion of Bel's that there is no objective, scientific evidence other than chromosomes is pure far-right bullshit.
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RE: It's A Quote
(August 12, 2025 at 5:07 am)GrandizerII Wrote: if someone is a particular gender, you look to the behavioral/social markers since they are more accessible.

OK, that makes sense. 

A person who is a woman wants to act the way that women in that society tend to act. 

This raises a number of questions about whether there is "a way that women act." But I can see that a person who thinks of herself as a woman would want to present that way as well, even if her image of what a woman is is completely contingent on the customs of that society. 

Of course, as you say, there are many people who would like to do this and can't, because of the society they're in. And there are of course all kinds of variations -- there are a wide variety of women, so we can't really say that there is some kind of archetypal image of a woman who would serve as a model for all transgender people. 

Likewise, a person who thinks of himself as a man may or may not model himself on the standard image of men in his society. 

But as a general tendency, it makes sense. 

So I understand that while there is no anatomical test, that could be done in a lab, there are a variety of psychological or behavioral tendencies that can be associated with trans-ness, and may or may not manifest in the case of an individual trans person. 

Quote: why should this be an issue at all?

I think everyone should live and dress the way they want. I'm glad there are all kinds of people in the world. 

The question for me is epistemological: how do we know that this particular statement is true? I appreciate your very reasonable answers.
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RE: It's A Quote
(August 12, 2025 at 5:49 am)Belacqua Wrote:
(August 12, 2025 at 5:07 am)GrandizerII Wrote: if someone is a particular gender, you look to the behavioral/social markers since they are more accessible.

OK, that makes sense. 

A person who is a woman wants to act the way that women in that society tend to act. 

This raises a number of questions about whether there is "a way that women act." But I can see that a person who thinks of herself as a woman would want to present that way as well, even if her image of what a woman is is completely contingent on the customs of that society. 

Of course, as you say, there are many people who would like to do this and can't, because of the society they're in. And there are of course all kinds of variations -- there are a wide variety of women, so we can't really say that there is some kind of archetypal image of a woman who would serve as a model for all transgender people. 

Likewise, a person who thinks of himself as a man may or may not model himself on the standard image of men in his society. 

But as a general tendency, it makes sense. 

So I understand that while there is no anatomical test, that could be done in a lab, there are a variety of psychological or behavioral tendencies that can be associated with trans-ness, and may or may not manifest in the case of an individual trans person. 

Quote: why should this be an issue at all?

I think everyone should live and dress the way they want. I'm glad there are all kinds of people in the world. 

The question for me is epistemological: how do we know that this particular statement is true? I appreciate your very reasonable answers.

(Bold mine)

Why do we need to know whether it's true?

Boru
‘I can’t be having with this.’ - Esmeralda Weatherwax
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RE: It's A Quote
Gaza has simply become uninhabitable. Its people are witnessing daily threats to their very existence—while the world watches on.

UN Under-Secretary-General for Humanitarian Affairs and Emergency Relief Coordinator, Martin Griffiths.
The first revolt is against the supreme tyranny of theology, of the phantom of God. As long as we have a master in heaven, we will be slaves on earth.

Mikhail Bakunin.
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