States seceding from the Union has become a popular talking point in recent years. Republicans speak of a "National Divorce" in which the red states secede and become Republican rule. It has been noted that blue states are net positive in that they pay in more to the federal government than they receive in services from the federal government, whereas red states are often net negative. The idea of a soft secession in which the blue states simply stop paying to the federal government, since they have the money to replace the services provided by the federal government. Pakman talks about some of the complications, but what do you think? Is this doable? If it's doable, is it advisable?

Perhaps the United States can be reinvented in the style of the European Union. This means that states interested in joining and remaining members must meet and maintain certain standards. Standards for education, the environment, healthcare, gun ownership, and similar.

Nope, 100%

(August 30, 2025 at 10:27 am)Angrboda Wrote: States seceding from the Union has become a popular talking point in recent years.  Republicans speak of a "National Divorce" in which the red states secede and become Republican rule.  It has been noted that blue states are net positive in that they pay in more to the federal government than they receive in services from the federal government, whereas red states are often net negative.  The idea of a soft secession in which the blue states simply stop paying to the federal government, since they have the money to replace the services provided by the federal government.  Pakman talks about some of the complications, but what do you think?  Is this doable?  If it's doable, is it advisable?

It’s illegal, which kind of makes ‘doable’ and ‘advisable’ moot.

Boru

This country isn't drawing the line at illegal with regard to Trump. Why should that be a red line?

(August 30, 2025 at 12:42 pm)Angrboda Wrote: This country isn't drawing the line at illegal with regard to Trump.  Why should that be a red line?

Fair point, but think the chief objection (outside legality) is that Trump isn’t likely to let those blue state dollars get away. He likes to play soldier, so he’s probably not above taking them by force.

Boru

(August 30, 2025 at 12:58 pm)BrianSoddingBoru4 Wrote:

(August 30, 2025 at 12:42 pm)Angrboda Wrote: This country isn't drawing the line at illegal with regard to Trump.  Why should that be a red line?

Fair point, but think the chief objection (outside legality) is that Trump isn’t likely to let those blue state dollars get away. He likes to play soldier, so he’s probably not above taking them by force.

Boru

He would reap as he sows.

(August 30, 2025 at 1:08 pm)Ravenshire Wrote:

(August 30, 2025 at 12:58 pm)BrianSoddingBoru4 Wrote: Fair point, but think the chief objection (outside legality) is that Trump isn’t likely to let those blue state dollars get away. He likes to play soldier, so he’s probably not above taking them by force.

Boru

He would reap as he sows.

Why? He never has before.

Boru

(August 30, 2025 at 12:38 pm)BrianSoddingBoru4 Wrote:

(August 30, 2025 at 10:27 am)Angrboda Wrote: States seceding from the Union has become a popular talking point in recent years.  Republicans speak of a "National Divorce" in which the red states secede and become Republican rule.  It has been noted that blue states are net positive in that they pay in more to the federal government than they receive in services from the federal government, whereas red states are often net negative.  The idea of a soft secession in which the blue states simply stop paying to the federal government, since they have the money to replace the services provided by the federal government.  Pakman talks about some of the complications, but what do you think?  Is this doable?  If it's doable, is it advisable?

It’s illegal, which kind of makes ‘doable’ and ‘advisable’ moot.

Boru

It would require a constitutional amendment. There's no reason that couldn't happen if there was enough support for it amongst the states.

Though I don't Balkanization is much of an answer. What's to prevent further Balkanization of smaller political subdivisions? What do the red hats in California do when they find themselves living in (in their view) the glorious Soviet workers paradise of Californiastan?

(August 30, 2025 at 2:28 pm)Jackalope Wrote:

(August 30, 2025 at 12:38 pm)BrianSoddingBoru4 Wrote: It’s illegal, which kind of makes ‘doable’ and ‘advisable’ moot.

Boru

It would require a constitutional amendment.  There's no reason that couldn't happen if there was enough support for it amongst the states.

Though I don't Balkanization is much of an answer.  What's to prevent further Balkanization of smaller political subdivisions?  What do the red hats in California do when they find themselves living in (in their view) the glorious Soviet workers paradise of Californiastan?

(Bold mine)

If they’re caught sneaking across the border into Oregon, they could be sent to Beaver Buchenwald.

Boru