(September 3, 2026 at 9:52 am)The Grand Nudger Wrote: According to you, we detect it all the time.  Goes back to that question I had for you why you would select or create one set of problems over another.  This undetectability business is a burden pan psychism can’t bear.  It is supposed to be in the seeming evidence and potency of souls interactions in the world that you believe it to be a credible worldview in the first place.  All of those eggheads with their lab coats studying things like sekection and neural networks are discovering -how- soul interacts in the world as a heritable trait with material force.

We detect it all the time? I don't think so. Instruments can detect punches but won't know what percentage of the momentum was due to ATP, on the one hand, and the soul's self-propulsion on the other.

(September 3, 2026 at 12:20 pm)Jal Wrote:

(September 3, 2026 at 10:29 am)Angrboda Wrote: Principles you pulled from your ass have no force.

Philosophy involves reasoning. I reasoned on this on post 296.
Natural Selection Seems Insufficient

There I justified the conclusion but I don't see why I need to. It seems common sense.  

If an atheist  wants theists to be more reasonable, he should practice what he preaches.

Asked and answered. Analogies, even good ones don't prove anything, and your analogies are defective for the reasons already given. Additionally, physical analogies can never justify metaphysical principles.

https://atheistforums.org/thread-66746-p...pid2256788

But let's take another moment to examine your analogy. In your analogy, invisible forces are already at work before we reach the intangible. So you can either argue they aren't, thus begging the question, or concede the point.

(September 3, 2026 at 12:30 pm)Angrboda Wrote:

(September 3, 2026 at 12:20 pm)Jal Wrote: Philosophy involves reasoning. I reasoned on this on post 296.
Natural Selection Seems Insufficient

There I justified the conclusion but I don't see why I need to. It seems common sense.  

If an atheist  wants theists to be more reasonable, he should practice what he preaches.

Asked and answered.  Analogies, even good ones don't prove anything, and your analogies are defective for the reasons already given.   Additionally, physical analogies can never justify metaphysical principles.

https://atheistforums.org/thread-66746-p...pid2256788

I won't say all of my analogies were perfect (can't even remember most of them right now).

But the golf ball analogy at post 296 was clear enough, therefore your dismissal of it is hand-waiving.

(September 3, 2026 at 12:34 pm)Jal Wrote:

(September 3, 2026 at 12:30 pm)Angrboda Wrote: Asked and answered.  Analogies, even good ones don't prove anything, and your analogies are defective for the reasons already given.   Additionally, physical analogies can never justify metaphysical principles.

https://atheistforums.org/thread-66746-p...pid2256788

I won't say all of my analogies were perfect (can't even remember most of them right now).

But the golf ball analogy at post 296 was clear enough, therefore your dismissal of it is hand-waiving.

My dismissal of it was justified by Hume's reasoning in Dialogues Concerning Natural Religion, already given. It was many things, hand-waving wasn't one of them. It was fully justified. You are simply telling lies now.

@Jal 

Quote:Immaterial forces seem to be a logical contradiction. The intangible cannot realistically impact the tangible.

Since gravitational attraction was detected and measured more than two centuries ago, how can it be ‘intangible’?

Boru

According to this guy, reality itself does not exist. At least it does not work without his god pushing around each and every single quark in every single nucleus. Literally everything is a miracle. His god created a world that is not working...at all, without god moving every.single.thing.

Nothing ever touches everything, nothing is "tangible". Reality is that matter is 99% empty space and when we "touch stuff" the fields repulsing each other prevent matter from effortlessly penetrating other matter.

This guy is probably the most stupid person i met in the past semi-century. Thats quite something!

(September 3, 2026 at 12:43 pm)Angrboda Wrote:

(September 3, 2026 at 12:34 pm)Jal Wrote: I won't say all of my analogies were perfect (can't even remember most of them right now).

But the golf ball analogy at post 296 was clear enough, therefore your dismissal of it is hand-waiving.

My dismissal of it was justified by Hume's reasoning in Dialogues Concerning Natural Religion, already given.  It was many things, hand-waving wasn't one of them.  It was fully justified.  You are simply telling lies now.

The only reason philosophers will try to exempt the brain from billiard-ball collision is because it contradicts their assumptions.

I've shown plenty example of idiocy in traditional theology, among brilliant scholars. Now here you're just showing me an example of idiocy among professional philosophers.

Sorry I ain't buying this nonsense. I don't believe in magic - a material object can be impacted only in a billiard-ball collision.

Enjoy your delusions

(September 3, 2026 at 2:18 pm)Deesse23 Wrote: According to this guy, reality itself does not exist. At least it does not work without his god pushing around each and every single quark in every single nucleus. Literally everything is a miracle. His god created a world that is not working...at all, without god moving every.single.thing.

Nothing ever touches everything, nothing is "tangible". Reality is that matter is 99% empty space and when we "touch stuff" the fields repulsing each other prevent matter from effortlessly penetrating other matter.

This guy is probably the most stupid person i met in the past semi-century. Thats quite something!

Please don't lie about my position. 

Sadly, if I leave this thread, looks like people are going to fill it up with lies. Shame on them.

(September 3, 2026 at 1:08 pm)BrianSoddingBoru4 Wrote: @Jal 

Quote:Immaterial forces seem to be a logical contradiction. The intangible cannot realistically impact the tangible.

Since gravitational attraction was detected and measured more than two centuries ago, how can it be ‘intangible’?

Boru

Does it behave just like tangible matter?

Oh that's right, it's defined as immaterial/ intangible in the science world.  

Enjoy your delusions.

(September 3, 2026 at 3:04 pm)Jal Wrote:

(September 3, 2026 at 2:18 pm)Deesse23 Wrote: According to this guy, reality itself does not exist. At least it does not work without his god pushing around each and every single quark in every single nucleus. Literally everything is a miracle. His god created a world that is not working...at all, without god moving every.single.thing.

Nothing ever touches everything, nothing is "tangible". Reality is that matter is 99% empty space and when we "touch stuff" the fields repulsing each other prevent matter from effortlessly penetrating other matter.

This guy is probably the most stupid person i met in the past semi-century. Thats quite something!

Please don't lie about my position. 

Sadly, if I leave this thread, looks like people are going to fill it up with lies. Shame on them.

If we promise not to fill it up with lies, will you promise to leave?

Boru