(January 30, 2012 at 12:17 am)Bgood Wrote: And what is a xtian fundie? I don't know if you are calling me something good or something bad. Or as a Zen master might put it... just saying something that is. No comprende senior Kich.

Fundie as in Fundamentalist. You come across as one of those "Born again xtians (short-hand for christians)" As if you are the only person on this rock who thinks they have a right to preach their favourite brand of tyranny. So perhaps I am making a comment about something that is.

Bgood Wrote:I just read a whole lot about it, meditate once in a while, visit a class periodically and go to single day retreats at Kadampa Temple in NY state with some friends when I am able.

Yes you have your own brand/ unique way of dealing with the world and everything in it and it involves a little bit of Buddhism ...quite fashionable of you.

You are rather young aren't you??

(March 13, 2010 at 4:14 pm)deicide110 Wrote: There really isn't to many holes you can shoot in buddism. It sounds like the most believable of the lot.
We can't deny it's beauty in philosophical terms. At least it concentrates on the development of the individual as an instrument in themselves rather than an instrument of above

Uh, there are plenty of holes you can shoot in Buddhism. The easiest being rebirth, but others including the total focus on attaining nirvana and the dogma of karma.

The recurring upsurge of orgasmic fanaticism and the supposed confusion with Hinduism??

Karma is nothing mysterious, it is just cause and effect. For example, if you slamdown a six pack of beer in two hours, you are probably gonna get pretty juiced up. Trust me, I've tried it before and that's what happens! lol

(January 30, 2012 at 12:46 am)Epimethean Wrote:

(March 13, 2010 at 4:14 pm)deicide110 Wrote: There really isn't to many holes you can shoot in buddism. It sounds like the most believable of the lot.
We can't deny it's beauty in philosophical terms. At least it concentrates on the development of the individual as an instrument in themselves rather than an instrument of above

Uh, there are plenty of holes you can shoot in Buddhism. The easiest being rebirth, but others including the total focus on attaining nirvana and the dogma of karma.

Dogma of Karma? As mentioned above, this doen'st really make much sense to say that this is a "hole" in Buddhism. When A happens it produces B results. Hmm, actually sounds like Science 101 to me. Focus on enlightenment is also not a hole. It is a goal to keep the mind clear and composed at all times. Is this impossible, perhaps, but if it keeps your mind clearer and more composed at least MOST of the time,which seems more likely since we are all imperfect and human, than there is nothing 'unscientific' or supernatural in that. But Rebirth/ Reincarnation is the biggest "hole" in Buddhism for many people. In that one point I would somewhat agree with you Epimethean. Yet rebirth can be interpreted metaphorically rather than literally. It is true that there is no evidence for rebirth, yet on the same hand there is no evidence to say that rebirth cannot happen and be real. I think reincarnation is much more likely to occur after death than going to some Heaven or Hell for eternity at least. The thing is that it doesn't really matter what we believe concerning the afterlife, because whatever is going to happen is going to happen anyway, so why have that one concept keep you from enjoying the benefits of Buddhism?

What if we don't get reborn until 5 billion years from now on another planet? We will all eventually turn to stardust when the world passes away, so the chance of evolution to reform a different manifesation of your consciousness is possible, even if astronomically improbable. Maybe only the ones most in tune, most in touch with Nature, like the Aborigines of Australia, are the people who most likely reincarnate as another unknown life form in the future. Maybe not. Regardless, I imitate Buddha with a smile on my handsome face!

Karma is not simply cause and effect, unless you want to say that, because you slam down that sixpack of beer, a year later, your beer will froth over when you open it, or, that, because you cheated on a test, two years later, you will fail another because you studied the wrong material. There is a whole ethical side to karma that is not a part of the physical universe. I love the rationalizations, though. About as scientific as Superman.

Specifically, the thought that karma is somehow a tumbling lock that can confine one to samsara or liberate one to nirvana. Thusly Karma becomes a magical key to fairy realms....nothing simple, not cause and effect. Karma is a dogma, and was adopted into the existing religious traditions of the 1st millennium BC. A testament to the popularizing effect of "far away places", little pieces of eastern traditions have been gradually creeping into western culture since the British Raj. Many americans have answered in the affirmative when polled about belief in things such as karma or reincaranation...combine that with the statistics regarding christianity and an interesting scenario emerges...interesting to me anyway. Unwittingly or obliviously christo-pagan America.

I loves me some religious syncretism, Rhythm!

I can understand and believe in karma in a sense that for every actions, there is a resulting effect to it. I dont believe in karma when it comes to be the factor that determine what rebirth will be.

Karma is a belief, though varied in views from one tradition to another, that originally came from Hinduism. However if you meet more liberal Zen priest, i personally know one, they dont even see karma as something that held back nirvana or enlightenment. They also dont believe that karma is a factor that control rebirth, they dont believe in rebirth in that sense. That is also because their definition of nirvana is one-life time realization of wisdom, nothing eternal or magical. So maybe karma is a dogma in some traditions of buddhism, not in many.

One thing about Buddhism, contrary to hinduism, is the idea of "annata" or "anatman", or no self,no soul. There is no eternal soul or self. Rebirth is not the passing of a soul to a different body, but just passing of reflected consciousness. they use the analogy of rebirth as candle passing its fire to other candles. Therefore rebirth interpret by many, combine the idea emptiness, or no-self and interconnection, as just simply means whatever you do influence others, and in that way your ideas and consciouness is reborn. Different realm ot samsara is just a metaphor. this is the idea that many more moderate or western Zen buddhist have. I like those Buddhists much more.

It seems to me that, at worst, Buddhism teaches specific superstitious mumbo jumbo best fitted to maybe 2nd century BC much like the worst incarnation of most religions. At best, buddhism adviocates anesthetizing the urge to workout problems and answer the urge to out do expectation and peers through a crazen obscurantism and intentional obnubulation the mind, again much like the least bad incarnation of most religions.

It reminds me of a Buddhist "teacher" with a load of sycophantic adherets, citing the most atrocious ignorance as scientific support for his mumbo jumbo, including the notion that birs can fly because it is scientifically proven that they have a light soul, insisted Buddhism is not anti-science.

When I represented to him that science does not recognize he, much less bird, having a soul, he replied something to the effect of "just as some people like southern dish, and some northern dish, One should not say northern dish is inedible just because one prefers southern dish, and therefore all dishes are equally good food", as if science and mumbo jumbo are just different aspect of science.

Buddhism is not anti-science in about the same way as a habitual liar is not anti-honesty.

kar·ma   /ˈkɑrmə/ Show Spelled[kahr-muh] Show IPA
noun
1. Hinduism, Buddhism . action, seen as bringing upon oneself inevitable results, good or bad, either in this life or in a reincarnation

I think some of you, namely Chuck, Rhythm, and Epimethean, have a distorted perspective of basic Buddhist philosophy. Viewing it from a distance, as an "outsider" and having just a general academic idea of the Dharma, it can appear superstitious and outdated in the face of modern science and a healthy skepticism. Alot of Buddhist concepts deal with deep psychological functions in the mind that need to be realized within one's self to be more fully comprehended as a reality of consciousness and life. I am not saying anything disparaging or negative about your attitude towards Buddha except that you all may be too quick to judge it and pigeonhole it into the category of religious nonsense and wishful thinking. Your desciptions of karma are exaggerated, blown out of proportion and not really the essence of what it means to one's practice and meditation. O.K. I can see your point about reincarnation and all that, that is a bit hard to swallow I agree, but karma seriously is just a simple mechanism of life. I think you guys are over complicating it and making it into some form of predestination that can not be changed or escaped. Karma is in it's most direct teaching, just cause and effect, which can happen in a matter of hours, such as my six pack reference and getting lit up or over a matter of years. If this binge drinking was done nearly everyday for a year, one would most likely become and be revealed as an alcoholic which has it's own PREDICTABLE results of health and emotional and social problems. The concept of Karma is very easy, it is the personal realization in how it operates in one's own personal life that is sometimes difficult to accept. It relates to responsibility and decision making. It also relates to foresight and seeing clearly the consequences of one's own actions. You guys see it too abstractly, you see all of Buddhism too abstractly, therein is the universal misconception. You are not alone in this misapprehension of it's power and verity. It is your own ego, ignorance and delusion that hinders you from seeing beyond your own arrogant blindness, which can come back to haunt you when the truth of what goes around comes back around to bite you in the ass! That's all that karma is...a habit of mind. Better off making good habits that cultivate love rather than anything negative. But don't take this ego thing I said too personally fellas, because like I said you are not alone in your ignorance. We are all ignorant and become arrogant at times, it is beautiful human nature. I of course am very guilty of it too! Don't mean to offend, only edify and clarify Buddha's pure message. Peace to you all, and please don't have a cow man! Buddha has got some really good shit to teach, but only if we are really willing look at ourselves with peace and fairness. So tear it up all you want, but it will still remain.