For such a theme I'm astonished it hasn't fell to a raging flame war yet, very refreshing.

(February 24, 2012 at 9:26 am)Insanity x Wrote: Such a hard topic. Made me think though. Ive changed my mind 3-4 times reading this. Im going to go away and think about it some more. Lots of love <3

Sensible.

As a general rule, I believe only fools assert moral absolutes.

Quote:Clearly, an embryo at conception meets all the objective scientific criteria of life.

Yeah, and the sperm and egg also meet all the criteria for life as well. Both can die, or not be healthy (causing all kinds of reproductive problems). Both are also classified as "human" as it can easily be picked out from sperm and eggs of other organisms "This one is dog sperm, this is duck sperm, this is HUMAN sperm"..etc...etc...

I am also BOTH pro-life and pro-choice. I personally find abortion to be disgusting. Thankfully I do not have a womb to be put in a situation like that. If I were a woman I would make sure I would prevent unwanted pregnancies to avoid having to make such a choice.

I also fully support others to have the right to choose. So yes, I support the right of people to kill their unborn children if they wish for any reason...but preferably I would like to see them get it done professionally.

So you are pro-life....but are you anti-abortion?

(February 24, 2012 at 2:03 am)mavis Wrote: In my view, that is tantamount to murder. That you would have it financed is even more disturbing -- albeit refreshingly honest.

Here's some semantic problems:

Murder is defined as "The unlawful premeditated killing of one human being by another."
Whether or not a fetus/embryo counts as a "human being," the real issue here is that, in many countries, abortion is legal, so therefore, it is not the "The unlawful premeditated killing of one human being by another."

Maybe you're thinking of the word homicide, which has a less specific definition, even if it does have less of an emotional impact.

That said, I am a firm believer that with regards to contraception, "an ounce of prevention is worth a pound of the cure," except, of course, when the prevention fails.

(February 24, 2012 at 8:32 am)NoMoreFaith Wrote: I certainly agree that if you do not want a baby, and you have taken all reasonable precautions against it, abortion should absolutely be allowed in the early stages of pregnancy.
If you are not responsible enough to take precautions, then you are not responsible enough to have sex.

And if you don't know better than to have sex without protection, you certainly don't know enough to competently raise a child.

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(February 24, 2012 at 8:40 am)leo-rcc Wrote: My opposition to the death penalty is only because of the failability of the justice system combined with the irreversable nature of the punishment. If there is no doubt of the guilt of a person, I have no problem with the death penalty. But you really need to be sure because once that decision is made, there is no turning back.

Agree on every point.

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(February 24, 2012 at 8:56 am)Rhythm Wrote: I'm not a big supporter of abortion either, but I'm not going to be the douche that stands there and tells a women that she has to have a baby, that somehow she's relinquished control of her womb to yours truly.

Sweet.

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Elsewhere, Summer quoted a longer piece that included this first paragraph:

You are a tiny speck of insignificant biological material in an immense universe that probably defies your brain’s ability of understanding. Yet you are remarkable, in innumerable ways. Every second of every day you are a walking ecosystem of life, housing trillions of microbes that continuously interact with you to keep both you and them alive. Your body is constantly building and rebuilding itself, encoding information on simple strains of molecules at the speed of jet engines, in each and every nucleus-possessing cell in your body. You are a walking, talking, living, breathing orchestra of life, a beautiful display of the potential inherent in our particular universe.


In this spirit, I would like to say that I'm entitled to say I am pro-life. Tiberius and Mavis you are merely pro-human. For the record I don't think any abortion is anything other that regrettable but that doesn't mean the better alternative is not to have one.

@Rev Rye: The word you ignored in your semantic argument was "tantamount". Legal or not, abortion is tantamount to murder in that it is a human being killing another human being.

(February 24, 2012 at 12:15 pm)Tiberius Wrote: @Rev Rye: The word you ignored in your semantic argument was "tantamount". Legal or not, abortion is tantamount to murder in that it is a human being killing another human being.

Which means it technically is homicide; the problem with this rebuttal is that "tantamount" means equivalent. The fact is that there are many different types of homicide, of which murder is only one. They may be considered morally equivalent, but the fact is that they're not the same.

(February 24, 2012 at 4:29 am)Tiberius Wrote: Just wait mavis, in a few minutes they'll do a flip flop and suddenly claim that "human life" isn't what's important, it is "people" that are important.

For the record... I don't believe human life is important

No flopping from me, just don't ask me to be upset about the slaying of a parasitic growth inside a woman by her choosing. And I also believe that she may lop off her own arm if she wishes, with the full assistance from a doctor should she pay for it (albeit Hypocratic Oath that).

(February 24, 2012 at 12:25 pm)Rev. Rye Wrote: Which means it technically is homicide; the problem with this rebuttal is that "tantamount" means equivalent. The fact is that there are many different types of homicide, of which murder is only one. They may be considered morally equivalent, but the fact is that they're not the same.

From Google:

"Equivalent in seriousness to; virtually the same as"

Bolding mine. I've never seen "tantamount" used as a replacement for "equivalent". Maybe things are different where you come from though.

(February 24, 2012 at 12:30 am)mavis Wrote: I am a physician and a professor of anatomy and physiology. The scientific definition of life involves six characteristics.

I have my doubts about your claim of being a physician and professor of A & P. The reason for my doubt is if you were really a professor of A & P you would definitely be aware that their are MANY differing scientific definitions of life and there is a consensus on none of them.