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RE: An interesting quote on evolution
March 17, 2012 at 7:12 pm
(March 17, 2012 at 6:51 pm)Stimbo Wrote: That depends on the environment. Here in our nice regulated cities we sit at the top of the food chain (actually more of a food web). Take a trip to somewhere like the Amazon, where huge carnivorous spiders are king, and you'll learn rather quickly your place on the menu.
Indeed. Traipse through the savannas of sub-Saharan Africa on foot for a few weeks and see how secure you feel at the "top of the food chain".
There's a reason our distant ancestors spent much of their time in trees.
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RE: An interesting quote on evolution
March 17, 2012 at 7:14 pm
You know there are still people who literally run gazelle to death on the savannah (think marathon, not sprint)? We're fairly competent predators in our own right.
I am the Infantry. I am my country’s strength in war, her deterrent in peace. I am the heart of the fight… wherever, whenever. I carry America’s faith and honor against her enemies. I am the Queen of Battle. I am what my country expects me to be, the best trained Soldier in the world. In the race for victory, I am swift, determined, and courageous, armed with a fierce will to win. Never will I fail my country’s trust. Always I fight on…through the foe, to the objective, to triumph overall. If necessary, I will fight to my death. By my steadfast courage, I have won more than 200 years of freedom. I yield not to weakness, to hunger, to cowardice, to fatigue, to superior odds, For I am mentally tough, physically strong, and morally straight. I forsake not, my country, my mission, my comrades, my sacred duty. I am relentless. I am always there, now and forever. I AM THE INFANTRY! FOLLOW ME!
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RE: An interesting quote on evolution
March 17, 2012 at 7:28 pm
(March 17, 2012 at 7:14 pm)Rhythm Wrote: You know there are still people who literally run gazelle to death on the savannah (think marathon, not sprint)? We're fairly competent predators in our own right.
Oh absolutely we are. I'm familiar with that practice. My point is that, we're still quite on the menu when it comes to large predators such as the lion. Bush-dwelling Africans aren't stupid, and have developed effective defenses against predators despite having few resources to do so with. They fear being outside the protective defense of their village at night, and for very good reason.
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RE: An interesting quote on evolution
March 17, 2012 at 7:35 pm
(This post was last modified: March 17, 2012 at 7:37 pm by The Grand Nudger.)
Hehehe, yeah, it's a little more give and take in some places, for sure. Even in such places though, the most dangerous thing someone is going to run into is likely to be another human being.
 tartled by a lion in the brush: "Thank fucking god, for a minute I was worried that somebody was following me"..lol
I am the Infantry. I am my country’s strength in war, her deterrent in peace. I am the heart of the fight… wherever, whenever. I carry America’s faith and honor against her enemies. I am the Queen of Battle. I am what my country expects me to be, the best trained Soldier in the world. In the race for victory, I am swift, determined, and courageous, armed with a fierce will to win. Never will I fail my country’s trust. Always I fight on…through the foe, to the objective, to triumph overall. If necessary, I will fight to my death. By my steadfast courage, I have won more than 200 years of freedom. I yield not to weakness, to hunger, to cowardice, to fatigue, to superior odds, For I am mentally tough, physically strong, and morally straight. I forsake not, my country, my mission, my comrades, my sacred duty. I am relentless. I am always there, now and forever. I AM THE INFANTRY! FOLLOW ME!
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RE: An interesting quote on evolution
March 17, 2012 at 7:49 pm
Stimbo: That is true, though if you don't mind me saying, I think that's a bit pedantic and detracts somewhat from the point made. If we so desired to "rule the amazon," I am fairly certain we could. Likewise with most other worldly environments.
Rythm: Indeed there are a great deal of areas that could be improved within us, but it is the artefacts of evolution that have seemingly(!) and actively reduced capabilities that fascinate me. I'd argue that nature does have goals (though obviously not in a conscious sense), enacted through the principles that Darwin deduced. If it did not, then there would be no point in evolving in the first place. As you pointed out though, these goals are not necessarily logical from a human perspective (in particular mine) at this point in time. Which might explain my persistence in this topic.
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RE: An interesting quote on evolution
March 17, 2012 at 7:51 pm
mannaka Wrote:Faith No More: Effectively as I read it, it is to say that it is not wholly logical to find something that is not particularly useful, attractive.
But its attractiveness is its usefulness which is why I am failing to understand the argument.
Even if the open windows of science at first make us shiver after the cozy indoor warmth of traditional humanizing myths, in the end the fresh air brings vigor, and the great spaces have a splendor of their own - Bertrand Russell
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RE: An interesting quote on evolution
March 17, 2012 at 7:54 pm
(This post was last modified: March 17, 2012 at 7:58 pm by The Grand Nudger.)
(March 17, 2012 at 7:49 pm)mannaka Wrote: Rythm: Indeed there are a great deal of areas that could be improved within us, but it is the artefacts of evolution that have seemingly(!) and actively reduced capabilities that fascinate me. I'd argue that nature does have goals (though obviously not in a conscious sense), enacted through the principles that Darwin deduced. If it did not, then there would be no point in evolving in the first place. As you pointed out though, these goals are not necessarily logical from a human perspective (in particular mine) at this point in time. Which might explain my persistence in this topic.
There is no point in evolving Manna, it simply happens. Nothing is trying to better suit itself to aything, there is no steady march. You're projecting our own very human concepts where they do not belong. Adaptations do not arise for the purposes of increasing an organisms chance at survival. Adaptations arise and then maybe (a great big maybe, btw) an advantage becomes obvious under a specific condition. What we see is what comes after the fact, which is to say, when a clear "winner" can be declared.
I'm wondering where you see anything in human beings that has reduced our capabilities? We kind of run this place after all.... It didn't take alot of balance, it didn't take alot of strength or speed. It didn't take telescopic vision or an ability to "see" in the infrared, it's what's between our ears.
I am the Infantry. I am my country’s strength in war, her deterrent in peace. I am the heart of the fight… wherever, whenever. I carry America’s faith and honor against her enemies. I am the Queen of Battle. I am what my country expects me to be, the best trained Soldier in the world. In the race for victory, I am swift, determined, and courageous, armed with a fierce will to win. Never will I fail my country’s trust. Always I fight on…through the foe, to the objective, to triumph overall. If necessary, I will fight to my death. By my steadfast courage, I have won more than 200 years of freedom. I yield not to weakness, to hunger, to cowardice, to fatigue, to superior odds, For I am mentally tough, physically strong, and morally straight. I forsake not, my country, my mission, my comrades, my sacred duty. I am relentless. I am always there, now and forever. I AM THE INFANTRY! FOLLOW ME!
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RE: An interesting quote on evolution
March 17, 2012 at 7:57 pm
(March 17, 2012 at 7:49 pm)mannaka Wrote: Stimbo: That is true, though if you don't mind me saying, I think that's a bit pedantic and detracts somewhat from the point made. If we so desired to "rule the amazon," I am fairly certain we could. Likewise with most other worldly environments.
Rythm: Indeed there are a great deal of areas that could be improved within us, but it is the artefacts of evolution that have seemingly(!) and actively reduced capabilities that fascinate me. I'd argue that nature does have goals (though obviously not in a conscious sense), enacted through the principles that Darwin deduced. If it did not, then there would be no point in evolving in the first place. As you pointed out though, these goals are not necessarily logical from a human perspective (in particular mine) at this point in time. Which might explain my persistence in this topic.
I diagree that nature has "goals". It is regulated by certain processes like natural selection but that is utterly dependant upon environment and occurs simply as a matter of fact and observation. Traits are selected for or against as a result of whether they promote survival within an environment. Goal implies that nature is "aiming" at something or has some end towards which it is moving.
"A casual stroll through the lunatic asylum shows that faith does not prove anything." -Friedrich Nietzsche
"All thinking men are atheists." -Ernest Hemmingway
"Those who can make you believe absurdities can make you commit atrocities." -Voltaire
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RE: An interesting quote on evolution
March 17, 2012 at 8:00 pm
This sort of stuff is very much an effect of our language betraying us horribly.
I am the Infantry. I am my country’s strength in war, her deterrent in peace. I am the heart of the fight… wherever, whenever. I carry America’s faith and honor against her enemies. I am the Queen of Battle. I am what my country expects me to be, the best trained Soldier in the world. In the race for victory, I am swift, determined, and courageous, armed with a fierce will to win. Never will I fail my country’s trust. Always I fight on…through the foe, to the objective, to triumph overall. If necessary, I will fight to my death. By my steadfast courage, I have won more than 200 years of freedom. I yield not to weakness, to hunger, to cowardice, to fatigue, to superior odds, For I am mentally tough, physically strong, and morally straight. I forsake not, my country, my mission, my comrades, my sacred duty. I am relentless. I am always there, now and forever. I AM THE INFANTRY! FOLLOW ME!
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RE: An interesting quote on evolution
March 17, 2012 at 8:03 pm
(March 17, 2012 at 7:49 pm)mannaka Wrote: Stimbo: That is true, though if you don't mind me saying, I think that's a bit pedantic and detracts somewhat from the point made. If we so desired to "rule the amazon," I am fairly certain we could. Likewise with most other worldly environments. If by 'detracts' you mean disagrees, then you may be half-right. I was simply attempting to clarify your statement. The point made was that we are at the top of the food chain. As other have pointed out besides myself, this is conditional and only applies in situations which imply group participation to hunt or otherwise obtain food. One-on-one, or even small groups, the outcome is fairly predictable. Put another way, food chains are not universal; what fits one environment gets eaten in another. There's a reason why humans who live in places with a with a resident wild animal population tend to have a healthy respect for their neighbours.
At the age of five, Skagra decided emphatically that God did not exist. This revelation tends to make most people in the universe who have it react in one of two ways - with relief or with despair. Only Skagra responded to it by thinking, 'Wait a second. That means there's a situation vacant.'
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