(March 25, 2012 at 3:37 am)Christian Wrote: God knowing what we are going to do does not mean that we can't do something else.

Yes actually it does, because if we did something else then God would not be omniscient. You seem to be forgetting that it was God who created EVERYTHING (according to you) so therefore he created us. Yes? If he created us and knows what decisions we will make then he is the one making us make those decisions. If you are telling me he is not making us make those decisions then he is either not omnipotent or he is malevolent. He has the choice to either create us and make us choose god (eliminating free will) or to make us and let us make the wrong choice, which he created us to make (making him an evil bastard).

Either way, your god sucks.

(March 25, 2012 at 3:37 am)Christian Wrote:

(March 24, 2012 at 9:35 pm)aleialoura Wrote: Does your god not have a plan? Is he omniscient, omnipotent, omnipresent?

He is.

Let me give you analogy.The sun will rise tomorrow. I am not causing it to rise nor am I preventing it from rising by knowing that it will happen. Likewise, if I put a bowl of ice-cream and a bowl of cauliflower in front of my child, I know for a fact which one is chosen - the ice cream. My knowing it ahead of time does not restrict my child from making a free choice when the time comes. My child is free to make a choice and knowing the choice has no effect upon her when she makes it.

God knowing what we are going to do does not mean that we can't do something else. It means that God simply knows what we have chosen to do ahead of time. Our freedom is not restricted by God's foreknowledge; our freedom is simply realized ahead of time by God.

The sun has a choice? The best analogy you could dredge up was that a human parent can predict the eating habits of a small child? Your god is a malicious precog, something that the faithful can never seem to grasp. You forgot to add in the bit about how you were going to beat your child for choosing the ice cream, knowing in advance that it would choose it.

Thankfully, monsters only exist in fairy tales, and yours is no different.

(March 24, 2012 at 9:17 pm)Christian Wrote: I think people are taking the meaning of freewill out of context. Freewill was not meant to be free as in free from everything (no strings attached). It is indeed meant to be a voluntary sacrifice (Lev. 22:23; Ezra 3:5). My definition of freewill is to accept Jesus as my personal saviour and continue to do whatever is permitted from the teachings of the Bible.

This is in line with the biblical account of the understanding of what we deem freewill. One must understand the actual term is not found in scripture, but the freedom to choose where we wish to spend eternity is.

How?

God gave us choice. In the simple act of choosing one must have options, these are the options we are all presented with. but first some biblically based definitions:

Sin, Is anything not in the Expressed Will of God.
Evil, is a malicious intention to commit sin.
Not all sin is Evil but all evil is sin.
All sin, Evil or not deserves Death in God's economy.

Free Will is the choice I was talking about earlier, In short it is the ability to be outside of the expressed will of God.
In other words Free Will is the ability to sin. that is subsequently why we had to have a Redeemer, so that when we made our choice (Whether to spend eternity in Heaven or not) the choice we make has Merritt.

Remember we are not choosing whether or not we sin, because the simple act of choosing is sin. (That is why it can be said that none are without sin or All have sinned and fallen short of the glory of God.) Once we choose to spend eternity with God, we find redemption for all of the smaller choices that lead up to our big decision.

The term "Freewill" as pop culture defines it is not the "free Will or Freedom of Choice" found in scripture. We do not have the ability to choose any path or any version of reality we want. It is not because we are locked into destiny it is because we are slaves to the situations we place ourselves in. In other words we are bound by the consequences of our actions, and there fore can not act freely or independently of consequence or God.

Free will as it is often times represented, is a philosophical illusion.

Again Biblical "Free Will" is being able to have a Will, Free from the Father's Will. In other words it is the simple act of sinning.

If you can sin then you are experiencing free will as the bible outlines it.

(March 25, 2012 at 10:43 am)Drich Wrote: If you can sin then you are experiencing free will as the bible outlines it.

Who gave us the ability to sin?

(March 25, 2012 at 10:43 am)Drich Wrote: If you can sin then you are experiencing free will as the bible outlines it.

Religion exists to control the dolts.

Thank you for continuing to serve as the bad example.

(March 25, 2012 at 1:13 pm)Napoleon Wrote:

(March 25, 2012 at 10:43 am)Drich Wrote: If you can sin then you are experiencing free will as the bible outlines it.

Who gave us the ability to sin?

The being who put the tree in the middle of the Garden. For Sin at it's root is choice.

Now ask who redeems sin.

Who redeems sin?

(March 25, 2012 at 2:13 pm)Drich Wrote: The being who put the tree in the middle of the Garden. For Sin at it's root is choice.

Now ask who redeems sin.

So god created the serpent (Who i assume you imply is the devil, satan or whatever else you like to call it) in full knowledge that it would corrupt humanity?

(March 25, 2012 at 2:19 pm)Insanity x Wrote:

(March 25, 2012 at 2:13 pm)Drich Wrote: The being who put the tree in the middle of the Garden. For Sin at it's root is choice.

Now ask who redeems sin.

So god created the serpent (Who i assume you imply is the devil, satan or whatever else you like to call it) in full knowledge that it would corrupt humanity?

Not only that, he created our ability to sin, then gets all fired up about us sinning, so sends a massive flood and then sends everyone to a massive pit of fire and torture.

The more I hear about this god fellow the more I think he should be made responsible for his crimes.

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Look its god!?



Well he fits the profile anyway..