(March 26, 2012 at 2:00 pm)Napoleon Wrote: Let me know your thoughts Tibby.

I would obviously like to encourage others to watch as well, he raises some very good points.

Yet, he fails to provide alternatives to solve the kony problem Napo. Half a minute in he says: "something feels fishy". How nice.

Like I said before, its easy to destrot initiatives, but the same people that do so fail to provide a better solution. And he claims that the kony video is propaganda.... What do you call his video?

I hope it was a joke. Still, I kinda want 11 minutes and 31 seconds of my life back.

You really watched the entire video? You don't think the points he makes are valid?

You don't think that the whole Kony movement is just one big giant campaign for war?

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(March 26, 2012 at 2:11 pm)Tiberius Wrote: Please tell me you are joking.

The points he makes in the video are fair points, I don't see why you think it is comical.

Funny you're so skeptical about the kony video, but then you so easily accept this guy's video Napo. Where in the kony video is saying a war must be started?

(March 26, 2012 at 2:29 pm)LastPoet Wrote: Funny you're so skeptical about the kony video, but then you so easily accept this guy's video Napo. Where in the kony video is saying a war must be started?

Where did I say I accept this guy's video anymore than the Kony video. All I'm saying is he raises interesting points.

The Kony video is most definitely pro war. You're blind if you can't see that. All the 'stand up and let's do something about this', the 'lets make the government do something, send troops etc'.

Otherwise what the fuck is the purpose of the Kony video if it isn't to get the US government to send in troops and kick Kony's ass?

Ok, apparently you were serious.

War with Uganda (or any other country) is not mentioned at all in the video, nor is it the point of the video. A war with Iran has been on the cards for years, and I fail to see how a video about Uganda (an African country) is going to make people support a war with Iran (a Middle Eastern country). Not only is there the massive geographical difference, but the entire point of the video is to bring one man and his small band of militants to justice at the International Criminal Court (hence why the ICC is featured in the film). It is not about a military invasion of another country; it is about having the military of non-Ugandan countries help the Ugandan army get rid of one of their worst war criminals. This is more of a peace-keeping mission than anything else, and I'm in complete favour of missions where we don't use our armies to kill innocent civillians, but instead use them to hunt down known criminals and bring them to justice.

Also, this guy claims to have been on YouTube for 2 years, and yet he doesn't think it's possible for a video like this to get 40 million views in a couple of days? Pull the other one. Social media is extremely powerful; there is a reason why so many companies now hire people just to visit reddit or twitter all day. This kind of stuff travels very quickly on the Internet.

Sorry, but my bullshit alarms went off when he started going on about CIA conspiracies.

(March 26, 2012 at 2:34 pm)Tiberius Wrote: War with Uganda (or any other country) is not mentioned at all in the video, nor is it the point of the video. A war with Iran has been on the cards for years, and I fail to see how a video about Uganda (an African country) is going to make people support a war with Iran (a Middle Eastern country).

Umm, not sure wtf you're going on about with Iran. You went off on a tangent there

I think the aim is quite clear with that video. How else are you going to 'bring Kony to justice' without some kind of military intervention.

Quote: the entire point of the video is to bring one man and his small band of militants to justice at the International Criminal Court (hence why the ICC is featured in the film). It is not about a military invasion of another country; it is about having the military of non-Ugandan countries help the Ugandan army get rid of one of their worst war criminals.

Not doubting it. So why the need for the US government to get involved?Isn't this something that Uganda and its neighbours should work out? What is the social media going to do to persuade the neighbouring countries of Uganda? What is the US government going to do? The only message I seem to get from the Kony video is "something should be done". Well what is this something. How is getting the US government involved going to do anything, UNLESS it's going to send in it's own military. Otherwise I can't see much it can do. Or am I missing something.

Quote:Also, this guy claims to have been on YouTube for 2 years, and yet he doesn't think it's possible for a video like this to get 40 million views in a couple of days? Pull the other one. Social media is extremely powerful; there is a reason why so many companies now hire people just to visit reddit or twitter all day. This kind of stuff travels very quickly on the Internet.

The social media is powerful, but how does liking a video on Youtube save kids lives in Uganda? The video kinda missed that part for me so maybe you can explain that.

Quote:Sorry, but my bullshit alarms went off when he started going on about CIA conspiracies.

I'll admit, I don't agree with everything he said. I also found it comical when he mentioned that. But I do think several of the points he raised were valid. And I do think that the Kony video is pro-war, but maybe that is up to interpretation.

(March 26, 2012 at 2:00 pm)LastPoet Wrote: Read my post with a bit more attention, I don't care if you don't support the campaign, its up to you, and no need to feel bad for not adhering to it. Other than that I fail to see the reason why you bring religion into this, so where are you getting at?

If there is valid points to be made, then why shouldn't you raise them?
Healthy scepticism isn't a bad thing, but I do agree that some people spend all their time just on shooting things down, which isn't constructive.

I brought up religion because of the founders comments in the past, that the way to get people involved in the church is not to say "I'm gonna baptise you" but instead ask them "Who are you? Will you be my friend?"
That makes me distrustful of his true agenda, whether true or not. I suspect religion conversion of young people is at the heart of this campaign. The videos on their "fourth estate" program are just plain cult-like creepy.

Quote:perhaps you could show us what are those ways so we can help if we can. Unless you have evidence that the campaign is indeed a scam, don't bother to rehiterate your apologetics. Your opinion on how this problem should be adressed has no value without data to support it, unless your saying nothing should be done, in that case I vehemently disagree.

Donate to Save the Children, War Child, while Invisible Children were riding around in jeeps not doing much and pissing off the aid workers who actually do shit instead of talking about it.
There are organisations that arrange micro-loans which while high risk of not being repaid, may help entrepreneurs to set up business in the third world for a very small amount. Economic stability is a core factor in promoting a countries growth. Catching Kony does Fuck. All. While I'm all for prosecuting the guy.. it has zero effect on the actual situation. Catching Kony doesn't stop the rebel fighters.. and hang on... why were they rebelling in the first place? Oh yeah, Ugandan government.. bunch of fucknuts human rights abusers themselves... who is calling for the dissolution and punishment of the Ugandan government to account for their massive abuses in the country? Fucking Noone. Instead a small time crook who used to be a big fish is the problem. No. Just no. Right idea, wrong message.
The best thing the Kony 2012 video has done, is create awareness so that people can put money where it counts.

Its a slick campaign because its all rhetoric and big budget videos, they don't actually offer any solutions themselves but than to "create awareness". They've done that.. now what? Whats their plan beyond stirring words. Oh yeah, give the government with one of the worst track records in human rights MORE WEAPONS.

Sure some people get instant popularity from criticising the Kony 2012, and they aren't really much better, getting their minutes of fame.

The point is, the message of Kony 2012, is good, their solution is BAD... not just a "whats your alternative" bad.. but supporting another regimes reign of terror in response? Retarded.

What Ugandan Government Did in 2011:http://www.hrw.org/world-report-2012/wor...012-uganda
What Kony Did in 2011: ... not a lot actually. Some people thought he might be dead already.

(March 26, 2012 at 2:49 pm)Napoleon Wrote: Umm, not sure wtf you're going on about with Iran. You went off on a tangent there

Did we watch the same video? His entire point was that Kony 2012 is a government plot aimed at getting people to support war, so that the US can invade Iran.

Quote:I think the aim is quite clear with that video. How else are you going to 'bring Kony to justice' without some kind of military intervention.

Not all military intervention is war.

Quote:Not doubting it. So why the need for the US government to get involved?Isn't this something that Uganda and its neighbours should work out? What is the social media going to do to persuade the neighbouring countries of Uganda? What is the US government going to do? The only message I seem to get from the Kony video is "something should be done". Well what is this something. How is getting the US government involved going to do anything, UNLESS it's going to send in it's own military. Otherwise I can't see much it can do. Or am I missing something.

They already are involved; they have deployed 100 troops already to help the Ugandan military. The point is, those troops need to stay there until the job is done, or increased if Kony starts to rebuild his army. I'm not sure you fully understand what Kony 2012 is actually about...this was all covered in the Kony 2012 viral video.

Quote:The social media is powerful, but how does liking a video on Youtube save kids lives in Uganda? The video kinda missed that part for me so maybe you can explain that.

Simple:

1) Video sheds light on injustice that most people are unaware of.
2) Millions of people watch video.
3) Millions of people are now aware of injustice, and demand something is done about it.
4) Government listens to will of people (rare, I know, but it happens) and does something.

If you thought that the whole point of Kony 2012 is to "like" a video and then not do anything else, you probably didn't watch the video all the way through. It is all about action; making enough noise and getting enough people to learn about Kony and his crimes that the government will get off their ass and do something about it.

Quote:I'll admit, I don't agree with everything he said. I also found it comical when he mentioned that. But I do think several of the points he raised were valid. And I do think that the Kony video is pro-war, but maybe that is up to interpretation.

It's pro-military, I'll give you that, but the military is meant to do other things apart from fight in wars. Military's main purpose (at least it should be) is to defend the homeland. Other functions include peacekeeping missions with allies, etc. Helping the international court try and arrest these people is a good idea in my opinion, and I don't care if the people helping out are military, civilian, or just regular police.

(March 26, 2012 at 4:09 pm)Tiberius Wrote: Did we watch the same video? His entire point was that Kony 2012 is a government plot aimed at getting people to support war, so that the US can invade Iran.

I don't think that was his 'entire point'. Bit of a straw man here.

Like I said, I do agree he seemed a bit sensationalist and 'conspiracy theorist', but as I also said, he raised important points also.

Ones I think deserve some acknowledgement.

Quote:Not all military intervention is war.

Not all military intervention is needed.

Quote:They already are involved;

This was before the video even went viral. Correct?

Quote:they have deployed 100 troops already to help the Ugandan military. The point is, those troops need to stay there until the job is done, or increased if Kony starts to rebuild his army.

Okay, now I'm not against having these troops there to provide help and assistance (not actually to fight). And I'm not saying Kony should be able to get away with what he is/was doing. He's a war criminal no doubt about it. I'm not sitting here denying that. My problem is exactly what this video hopes to achieve. Is it simply raising awareness? Well if so, then you can definitely say it has done that. But why has it taken them so fucking long to get this message out? The thing that makes me annoyed about it all is that Kony isn't even supposed to be in Uganda anymore. Why was this not done 10 years ago when Kony was actually committing these atrocities, because I can tell you for a fact he's pretty inactive at the minute. Sure he could come back. But still, the damage has been done.

Quote:I'm not sure you fully understand what Kony 2012 is actually about...this was all covered in the Kony 2012 viral video.

Thanks for that lovely bit of patronisation. Believe me, I was just as ready as everyone else to throw my money away and buy myself an 'action kit' and all that.



Then I encountered news stories and videos and they just made me stop and think. So I look into it further, and turns out, I don't really find that giving these people this money is the best way to be helping. Especially seen as they only send 32% of the income they make to the people in Africa who need the help.

The one point I just want to make very clear, is that sending money to this organisation, is in my opinion a waste when there are hundreds of other charities who would benefit from it far more. You are simply paying for the people behind "invisible children" to have private jets to Africa and back.

Quote:Simple:

1) Video sheds light on injustice that most people are unaware of.
2) Millions of people watch video.
3) Millions of people are now aware of injustice, and demand something is done about it.
4) Government listens to will of people (rare, I know, but it happens) and does something.

Riiight. And the government wasn't already doing something before this? We've already established they sent troops to Uganda before the video went viral. What have they done since? I've not seen any mention from any politicians that they plan on hunting down Kony because they saw a Youtube video.

Quote:If you thought that the whole point of Kony 2012 is to "like" a video and then not do anything else, you probably didn't watch the video all the way through.

I'm sorry. I should of said, "getting people to like a video, and buy their action kits and put up posters and wear fancy bracelets". My bad.

Quote:It is all about action; making enough noise and getting enough people to learn about Kony and his crimes that the government will get off their ass and do something about it.

I have no problem with people taking action and doing something immensely powerful within social media to help other less fortunate people. I agree with the main point of the video. I just take issue with the way they intend to go about it. And I think a hell of a lot of people will be/already are suckered in to supporting a dodgy charity by a misleading video. An organisation which is described from Foreign Affairs to "manipulate facts for strategic purposes".

http://www.moneytrendsresearch.com/the-t...kony-2012/

Quote:Helping the international court try and arrest these people is a good idea in my opinion

It is in mine too. Let me set it straight, Kony is a cunt, and needs to be apprehended. This video absolutely succeeded in getting the message out. However I think it is you who is missing an important point of the Kony video. To pay for these 'action kits' and to support 'innocent children'. I am merely questioning these two things. Not because I'm an asshole who wants to be a killjoy. I just think it's important to be skeptical, because no one really knows where their money is going.

I don't think it's a bad thing to question without jumping on the bandwagon. Something I expect many here to agree with.