(March 31, 2012 at 6:05 am)Christian Wrote: Death is just a pathway for eternal bliss.

I agree, oblivion, compared to the chaos of reality that we have to endure now is bliss.

We won't even know we were ever alive to begin with. That is what it means to be dead.

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(March 26, 2012 at 7:08 am)Phil Wrote:

(March 26, 2012 at 7:05 am)Mosrhun Wrote:

(March 26, 2012 at 7:00 am)Phil Wrote: [quote='Mosrhun' pid='261233' dateline='1332759263']
If one day everything is just gone, then why do we experience life as it is? Most people have their first memory at around age 2-3. You have no recollection of your life as an infant, so it seems to you that one day you just pop into existence because you can't remember anything prior. So if one day all of our memories cease to exist, then how is it that we are living life now? Wouldn't it work the same way as it did as an infant? Where I would not remember all these years and just cease to exist? If that's the case then we shouldn't even experience ourselves as "alive". Thoughts?

In a nutshell: If everything you are is gone when you die, then how is it possible to even experience life? We would not remember it.

Better?

Guess that is why it made no sense. you're asking why we experience life since we have no memories after death? That is pure nonsense, lay off the magic mushrooms.

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or give the mushrooms to me

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shit.... personal note, never try to post while drinking

(March 26, 2012 at 7:16 am)Norfolk And Chance Wrote: Seven billion individuals simultaneously exist right now, all experiencing consciousness, plus however many billion conscious animals - why am I the consciousness in THIS body, right here, right now, and not any of the others right now or in any time previous? Why aren't I YOU, reading this post, or both of us, or nobody at all?

Well as a matter of fact I am you and you are I. Apparently your consciousness got into my body, and having been brought up in my family pretty much became who I would have become anyway even with the right seed consciousness. Meanwhile I'm sure my consciousness, which mistakenly got associated with your body essentially became the same person as your consciousness would have become if not for the switch.

Long story short, I have no reason to think there are any markers on our consciousness apart from our bodies which would allow you to make sure the match is right. It's a pretty dualist thought to think otherwise. Sort of like wondering why the light emanating from one flashlight couldn't have been the light given off by another. Sure. Maybe. Does it matter?

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This thread turned out to be completely different than what I was expecting. I've had no drugs in a very long time so I never know when you might be kidding me. If magic mushrooms were involved that would explain a lot.

Had there been a poll I would have voted pro-death. We are so behind in our dying as a species. Come on you guys. Finish up and get off the planet. (Those of you who amuse me are welcome to take your time.)

(March 31, 2012 at 2:37 pm)whateverist Wrote:

(March 26, 2012 at 7:16 am)Norfolk And Chance Wrote: Seven billion individuals simultaneously exist right now, all experiencing consciousness, plus however many billion conscious animals - why am I the consciousness in THIS body, right here, right now, and not any of the others right now or in any time previous? Why aren't I YOU, reading this post, or both of us, or nobody at all?

Well as a matter of fact I am you and you are I. Apparently your consciousness got into my body, and having been brought up in my family pretty much became who I would have become anyway even with the right seed consciousness. Meanwhile I'm sure my consciousness, which mistakenly got associated with your body essentially became the same person as your consciousness would have become if not for the switch.

Long story short, I have no reason to think there are any markers on our consciousness apart from our bodies which would allow you to make sure the match is right. It's a pretty dualist thought to think otherwise. Sort of like wondering why the light emanating from one flashlight couldn't have been the light given off by another. Sure. Maybe. Does it matter?

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This thread turned out to be completely different than what I was expecting. I've had no drugs in a very long time so I never know when you might be kidding me. If magic mushrooms were involved that would explain a lot.

Had there been a poll I would have voted pro-death. We are so behind in our dying as a species. Come on you guys. Finish up and get off the planet. (Those of you who amuse me are welcome to take your time.)

I feel as though I have seen this dualist myth reduced to an absurdity by my experience working with those who have serious mental illness and traumatic brain injuries. When you watch someone's personality change drastically as a result of either you realize how subordinate our "consciousness" is to brain function and how dependant upon brain function our personality and decision making abilities are. To claim that there is "spirit" or an essence of a person external to these physiological processes seems unfounded. This is the materialists argument, which I think is valid. Consciousness does not exist outside of brain function and personality is dependant upon the latter.

In short we don't fully understand why one person's consciousness is bound to their particular body as opposed to another but I will venture a guess that it has nothing to do with a "soul" or "spirit" inhabiting that body.

(March 31, 2012 at 2:50 pm)mediamogul Wrote: I feel as though I have seen this dualist myth reduced to an absurdity by my experience working with those who have serious mental illness and traumatic brain injuries. When you watch someone's personality change drastically as a result of either you realize how subordinate our "consciousness" is to brain function and how dependant upon brain function our personality and decision making abilities are. To claim that there is "spirit" or an essence of a person external to these physiological processes seems unfounded. This is the materialists argument, which I think is valid. Consciousness does not exist outside of brain function and personality is dependant upon the latter.

In short we don't fully understand why one person's consciousness is bound to their particular body as opposed to another but I will venture a guess that it has nothing to do with a "soul" or "spirit" inhabiting that body.

Any dualist might ask in cases of brain trauma - where did they go? Where is their personality or self or whatever? I agree with you that asking such questions makes no more sense than asking where we go after we die.

(March 31, 2012 at 2:59 pm)whateverist Wrote:

(March 31, 2012 at 2:50 pm)mediamogul Wrote: I feel as though I have seen this dualist myth reduced to an absurdity by my experience working with those who have serious mental illness and traumatic brain injuries. When you watch someone's personality change drastically as a result of either you realize how subordinate our "consciousness" is to brain function and how dependant upon brain function our personality and decision making abilities are. To claim that there is "spirit" or an essence of a person external to these physiological processes seems unfounded. This is the materialists argument, which I think is valid. Consciousness does not exist outside of brain function and personality is dependant upon the latter.

In short we don't fully understand why one person's consciousness is bound to their particular body as opposed to another but I will venture a guess that it has nothing to do with a "soul" or "spirit" inhabiting that body.

Any dualist might ask in cases of brain trauma - where did they go? Where is their personality or self or whatever? I agree with you that asking such questions makes no more sense than asking where we go after we die.

The answer would be that they don't "go" anywhere. Their brain simply doesn't not function the same as it did and they experience drastic changes in everything from cognition to perception to reasoning to their senses.

Asking where we go when we die is like asking where a flame goes after it is extinguished. Or where a harmony goes when we stop singing. We all know what it was like to not exist. It's what happened before we came into existence and will most likely happen when our life is extinguished.

(March 31, 2012 at 11:29 am)cdabamsworth Wrote: Not strictly topical, but I like what Penn Jillette said:

"I say to people who are scared of death, 'You weren't alive in 1890. Does that scare you?' They say, 'No, why would it?' I say, 'So why does 2090 scare you?'"

That honestly does scare me a bit.

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(March 31, 2012 at 2:50 pm)mediamogul Wrote:

(March 31, 2012 at 2:37 pm)whateverist Wrote:

(March 26, 2012 at 7:16 am)Norfolk And Chance Wrote: Seven billion individuals simultaneously exist right now, all experiencing consciousness, plus however many billion conscious animals - why am I the consciousness in THIS body, right here, right now, and not any of the others right now or in any time previous? Why aren't I YOU, reading this post, or both of us, or nobody at all?

Well as a matter of fact I am you and you are I. Apparently your consciousness got into my body, and having been brought up in my family pretty much became who I would have become anyway even with the right seed consciousness. Meanwhile I'm sure my consciousness, which mistakenly got associated with your body essentially became the same person as your consciousness would have become if not for the switch.

Long story short, I have no reason to think there are any markers on our consciousness apart from our bodies which would allow you to make sure the match is right. It's a pretty dualist thought to think otherwise. Sort of like wondering why the light emanating from one flashlight couldn't have been the light given off by another. Sure. Maybe. Does it matter?

---

This thread turned out to be completely different than what I was expecting. I've had no drugs in a very long time so I never know when you might be kidding me. If magic mushrooms were involved that would explain a lot.

Had there been a poll I would have voted pro-death. We are so behind in our dying as a species. Come on you guys. Finish up and get off the planet. (Those of you who amuse me are welcome to take your time.)

I feel as though I have seen this dualist myth reduced to an absurdity by my experience working with those who have serious mental illness and traumatic brain injuries. When you watch someone's personality change drastically as a result of either you realize how subordinate our "consciousness" is to brain function and how dependant upon brain function our personality and decision making abilities are. To claim that there is "spirit" or an essence of a person external to these physiological processes seems unfounded. This is the materialists argument, which I think is valid. Consciousness does not exist outside of brain function and personality is dependant upon the latter.

In short we don't fully understand why one person's consciousness is bound to their particular body as opposed to another but I will venture a guess that it has nothing to do with a "soul" or "spirit" inhabiting that body.

Maybe the consciousness moves on. Like inhabits another body in the universe and you're somebody else without your memories. It's an interesting thought.

I'm not sure If I explained that properly, but somebody might be able to get what I'm saying.

(April 5, 2012 at 4:32 pm)Adjusted Sanity Wrote: Maybe the consciousness moves on. Like inhabits another body in the universe and you're somebody else without your memories. It's an interesting thought.

I'm not sure If I explained that properly, but somebody might be able to get what I'm saying.

I get what you mean but unless I have my memories and experiences it seems a pointless thing to me.

(April 5, 2012 at 4:44 pm)Insanity x Wrote:

(April 5, 2012 at 4:32 pm)Adjusted Sanity Wrote: Maybe the consciousness moves on. Like inhabits another body in the universe and you're somebody else without your memories. It's an interesting thought.

I'm not sure If I explained that properly, but somebody might be able to get what I'm saying.

I get what you mean but unless I have my memories and experiences it seems a pointless thing to me.

Right. Consciousness removed from the senses is nothing. Consciousness is consciousness of something. It would be the extinguishing of your "self" in every meaningful sense. I toyed with reincarnation for a bit but never could make much sense of it. Consciousness carries no information with it. It is a pure function of the brain.

(April 5, 2012 at 4:50 pm)mediamogul Wrote:

(April 5, 2012 at 4:44 pm)Insanity x Wrote:

(April 5, 2012 at 4:32 pm)Adjusted Sanity Wrote: Maybe the consciousness moves on. Like inhabits another body in the universe and you're somebody else without your memories. It's an interesting thought.

I'm not sure If I explained that properly, but somebody might be able to get what I'm saying.

I get what you mean but unless I have my memories and experiences it seems a pointless thing to me.

Right. Consciousness removed from the senses is nothing. Consciousness is consciousness of something. It would be the extinguishing of your "self" in every meaningful sense. I toyed with reincarnation for a bit but never could make much sense of it. Consciousness carries no information with it. It is a pure function of the brain.

What if your memories go with the consciousness and remain dormant until a certain point where your cycle of reincarnation ends? There's a thought.