(March 30, 2012 at 9:26 am)Drich Wrote: [i]I'm often trolled by atheists

I think you mean "I often lose arguments to smart people"

(April 9, 2012 at 12:49 am)WhatIfGodWasJustAMyth Wrote:

(March 30, 2012 at 9:26 am)Drich Wrote: [i]I'm often trolled by atheists

I think you mean "I often lose arguments to smart people"

what post number did that quote come from?

(April 9, 2012 at 1:19 am)Drich Wrote:

(April 9, 2012 at 12:49 am)WhatIfGodWasJustAMyth Wrote:

(March 30, 2012 at 9:26 am)Drich Wrote: [i]I'm often trolled by atheists

I think you mean "I often lose arguments to smart people"

what post number did that quote come from?

Actually I got to that line in your post, and was like "Fuck this!"
I didn't even bother reading the replies already knowing what they would say.

As has already been mentioned Drich, you are proposing the able but not willing god ( and I guess just for the hell of it you've also invoked the willing but not able god as well). God is not willing to prevent evil as it interferes with this ghostly thing you like to call "free will", and he is not able to do so since for some reason his little plan hinges on the whole bit to begin with. Malevolent as well as incompetent.

You haven't put Epicuras' little assessment at peril, you've simply repeated it yourself. You have an issue with the word malevolence, you aren't addressing the problem of evil at all. I guess it gets to live at least one more day, add that to the thousands already under it's belt.

Drich Wrote:Why does God allow sin? (A will apart from His own?) So that we may choose, whether or not we want to spend an eternity with God. In order for there to be a choice their must be true options. Ours are the expressed will of God or our own.

Now, imagine you are telling this to the parent of a child who was kidnapped, tortured, and murdered. Do you think you would be able to convince them that this is not malevolence, and how would you do so?

(April 9, 2012 at 6:19 am)Faith No More Wrote:

Drich Wrote:Why does God allow sin? (A will apart from His own?) So that we may choose, whether or not we want to spend an eternity with God. In order for there to be a choice their must be true options. Ours are the expressed will of God or our own.

Now, imagine you are telling this to the parent of a child who was kidnapped, tortured, and murdered. Do you think you would be able to convince them that this is not malevolence, and how would you do so?

Why would I have to? in your scenario do the parents believe that God Himself kidnapped their baby? Or was it the result of Evil men? If it was the result of evil men then why would anything needed to be said to grief stricken parents, other than support and condolences?

If God was obligated to wipe out all evil, then wouldn't our names also be on His hit list? Would their be anyone alive after the age of accountability?

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(April 9, 2012 at 1:22 am)WhatIfGodWasJustAMyth Wrote:

(April 9, 2012 at 1:19 am)Drich Wrote:

(April 9, 2012 at 12:49 am)WhatIfGodWasJustAMyth Wrote:

(March 30, 2012 at 9:26 am)Drich Wrote: [i]I'm often trolled by atheists

I think you mean "I often lose arguments to smart people"

what post number did that quote come from?

Actually I got to that line in your post, and was like "Fuck this!"
I didn't even bother reading the replies already knowing what they would say.

Just in case you missed it, but everything in the slanted text was the concerns of someone else on another website. The only thing belonging to me was the original description of what I was doing (The first line) and the answer provided.

Sorry to burst your bubble but your railing against the wrong person. Unless this is just a hate for the sake of hating someone that thinks differently than you do post. If that is the case then know you and your message do not stand alone.

Drich Wrote:Why would I have to? in your scenario do the parents believe that God Himself kidnapped their baby? Or was it the result of Evil men? If it was the result of evil men then why would anything needed to be said to grief stricken parents, other than support and condolences?

You wouldn't have to, it's just a hypothetical scenario where you are defending your argument in an extreme circumstance.

No, they don't believe god kidnapped their baby, but they are wondering why god would allow such a thing to happen given that he is allegedly omnipotent and benevolent. Why did god sit idly by as this horrible event happened just to preserve free will?

Drich Wrote:If God was obligated to wipe out all evil, then wouldn't our names also be on His hit list? Would their be anyone alive after the age of accountability?

Assuming the Christian doctrine that we are all sinners making us evil, why would an omnipotent god's only option be to kill everyone?

So we all deserve to be on a hit list of some kind? We're all that evil? I think that's just another one of those bare assertions (and were it true, god is responsible for putting us here, knowing full well what we would do correct? Problem of evil territory yet again). You still haven't wriggled out of the problem of evil, you're just avoiding it. Is it safe to assume at this point that you don't actually feel the need to address it? You'd rather argue about something else? I'm cool with that, let's roll with it. God isn't responsible for evil, care to make a list of all the other things he isn't responsible for? I could add a few things to a list like that myself. Hell, we may find common ground.

I get why God might not stop a 4-year-old from getting raped if free will for the rapist is so damn unimaginably important. Sure, apparently it's okay to threaten him with hell after he dies, but the occasional mild electrical shock in this life would be just too much freakin' much interference. But why would God allow a 4-year old die a slow and agonizing death from an accident of nature like an earthquake or a parasitic infection? Where does the almighty free will figure in there? What free will imperative is served by letting us get hit with stuff we could not possibly foresee or defend against? What about natural evil?

"Sometimes there is a lesson for those left living" inc in 3...2....1 Yessiree, a god that teaches us lessons by massacring people. Malevolence ftw.