On free will, I only need ask a few questions to the theists on that subject:

1. Do I have the free will to be GOD?

2. And if not to question 1, do I really have "free" will?

3. Would free will not be without constraints, limits, or boundaries?

So for the theists here that claim we have free will, I sure hope you can answer those questions for me.

(April 12, 2012 at 9:15 pm)TheJackel Wrote: On free will, I only need ask a few questions to the theists on that subject:

1. Do I have the free will to be GOD?

2. And if not to question 1, do I really have "free" will?

3. Would free will not be without constraints, limits, or boundaries?

So for the theists here that claim we have free will, I sure hope you can answer those questions for me.

May be later.

(April 12, 2012 at 9:21 pm)Thomas Kelly Wrote:

(April 12, 2012 at 9:15 pm)TheJackel Wrote: On free will, I only need ask a few questions to the theists on that subject:

1. Do I have the free will to be GOD?

2. And if not to question 1, do I really have "free" will?

3. Would free will not be without constraints, limits, or boundaries?

So for the theists here that claim we have free will, I sure hope you can answer those questions for me.

May be later.

What kind of answer is "Maybe later" ? That's doesn't address anything.

(April 12, 2012 at 11:09 pm)TheJackel Wrote:

(April 12, 2012 at 9:21 pm)Thomas Kelly Wrote:

(April 12, 2012 at 9:15 pm)TheJackel Wrote: On free will, I only need ask a few questions to the theists on that subject:

1. Do I have the free will to be GOD?

2. And if not to question 1, do I really have "free" will?

3. Would free will not be without constraints, limits, or boundaries?

So for the theists here that claim we have free will, I sure hope you can answer those questions for me.

May be later.

What kind of answer is "Maybe later" ? That's doesn't address anything.

I guess you deserved an answer apart from me not wanting to tell my opinions at the time.

(April 12, 2012 at 9:15 pm)TheJackel Wrote: 1. Do I have the free will to be GOD?

Nope

Quote:2. And if not to question 1, do I really have "free" will?

Appearently not as you have defined it.

Quote:3. Would free will not be without constraints, limits, or boundaries?

Free will as the bible defines it is to have a will independant of the Expressed Will of God. In other words free will is the ablity to sin. It has nothing to do with your ablity to chose whatever you wish. This version is not promised by God, matter of fact this version is what cause the fall of man and the fall satan had from the grace of God.

Quote:So for the theists here that claim we have free will, I sure hope you can answer those questions for me.

Done

(April 12, 2012 at 9:15 pm)TheJackel Wrote: On free will, I only need ask a few questions to the theists on that subject:

1. Do I have the free will to be GOD?

2. And if not to question 1, do I really have "free" will?

3. Would free will not be without constraints, limits, or boundaries?

So for the theists here that claim we have free will, I sure hope you can answer those questions for me.

1. No, Lucifer tried that, you see where that's gotten him.

2. You have freewill to chose God's absolute grace or not to. After that it all depends on God's will.

3. Except for your choice for salvation your freewill has limits, boundaries and constraints. They were put on Lucifer after his fall, why should we be any different.

Any argument for or against freewill would be an argument from ignorance as even our best scientists are unable to discern the majority of factors that fit into our decision making.
Any argument that an all-knowing, all powerful omnipotent being gave us freewill would be inherently flawed for reasons so painfully obvious that I wouldn't expect to have to explain them to "kindergarten".
Although I would suggest to people who adamantly defend the idea they have complete control and freewill to youtube Derren Brown for the next hour and a half and prepare to have their world rocked.

(April 12, 2012 at 11:15 pm)Thomas Kelly Wrote:

(April 12, 2012 at 11:09 pm)TheJackel Wrote:

(April 12, 2012 at 9:21 pm)Thomas Kelly Wrote:

(April 12, 2012 at 9:15 pm)TheJackel Wrote: On free will, I only need ask a few questions to the theists on that subject:

1. Do I have the free will to be GOD?

2. And if not to question 1, do I really have "free" will?

3. Would free will not be without constraints, limits, or boundaries?

So for the theists here that claim we have free will, I sure hope you can answer those questions for me.

May be later.

What kind of answer is "Maybe later" ? That's doesn't address anything.

I guess you deserved an answer apart from me not wanting to tell my opinions at the time.

Now I am going to assume this as some sort of protest of free will. But I apologize in advance if this assumption is wrong. So I am just going to use it for example purposes. And under example purposes only, this reply, if assumed to be a protest of free will, only shows available options you have to choose from, or only shows what you can, or what is possible for you to do. It doesn't answer the question of "free" will in the literal context. As in will without any constraints, or limits to options.. You could say you freely chose to not answer those questions at this time, but in reality it's just one possible available option you have to weigh and choose from. So you can choose to answer or not answer as it will be either one regardless of choices available.

You are thus still in a cage limited to what options you have to choose from. True free will will not have any limits what-so-ever to which would expand the entire spectrum of possibility right into impossibility as possible possibilities.

Do you have the free will to do anything you want, or are you bound to rules that prevent you from doing anything you want? So basically I see practical limited will to choose between available options within the limits of your ability.

---

(April 13, 2012 at 12:02 am)RaphielDrake Wrote: Any argument for or against freewill would be an argument from ignorance as even our best scientists are unable to discern the majority of factors that fit into our decision making.
Any argument that an all-knowing, all powerful omnipotent being gave us freewill would be inherently flawed for reasons so painfully obvious that I wouldn't expect to have to explain them to "kindergarten".
Although I would suggest to people who adamantly defend the idea they have complete control and freewill to youtube Derren Brown for the next hour and a half and prepare to have their world rocked.

It's true that we don't know how exactly the brain works, but decision making is basically weighing the options in relation any giving thing, and to self. Free will would mean that you are not bound to the limited options available. Hence the emphasis on "free".. As in not limited or bound.. Now regarding decision making, can you make a choice on a fork in the road you have no knowledge of. How do you cognitively choose left or right if you have no information that left or right exists, or what left or right would mean to you in terms of choice. Hence, it's pretty hard to choose a path cognitively without any information on what it is you are supposed to make a cognitive choice on. And this gets also gets into another issue about a true choice vs an educated guess. A true choice involves being omniscient of any choice or path option to which includes any infinite consequences that might arise from that choice.. (butterfly effect).. A educated guesses are essentially what most choices are.

Example:

Quote:If you had met Hitler when is was a newborn, would you have killed him knowing he would have committed genocide of the Jews? And if you had, would you have killed him not knowing what would happen if you do? ..Hence the result could lead to something far worse...

This called chaos theory in relation to the butterfly effect. It goes to show that choices for the most part are nothing more than educated guesses that can often be wrong, and also many times turn out right.

---

Quote:1. No, Lucifer tried that, you see where that's gotten him.

2. You have freewill to chose God's absolute grace or not to. After that it all depends on God's will.

3. Except for your choice for salvation your freewill has limits, boundaries and constraints. They were put on Lucifer after his fall, why should we be any different.

First off, you might want to read this concerning "Lucifer"... as it's usually a good idea to know what you are talking about in regards to it before using it:

http://matt-mattjwest.newsvine.com/_news...he-details

2ndly, your reply verifies lack of free will supposedly gifted upon you by your supposed to be GOD. GOD saying love him or burn isn't free will, it's an ultimatum via threat.. If I had the freedom to choose, I could do anything regardless of what your GOD says, demands, or threatens without any sort or consequence.. And giving your answer, you have reduced your self to the role of puppet to serve the Narcissism and EGO of another. This to which really makes your existence pointless.. So logically speaking, your GOD should just have created yes GOD robots vs going through all this other pointless nonsense. This thus exposes how intellectually inept this deity of yours is. Basically if you have to threaten and demand people love you, you have serious issues and problems to deal with. And from a GOD stand point, that is pretty pathetic don't ya think? And that brings us to another question:

What is a GOD if not worshiped as such?

Yes the power of relative opinion reduces the GOD concept to nothing more than pure opinion and title of opinion. This to where anything and everything could be considered as GODS, to where either all things are GODS, or to where there are no such things as GODs at all. Some people worship the cow, or see it as a divine creature. I see a cow as a potentially delicious burger on a bun with saute onions, bacon, ketchup, pickles, and lettuce. Perhaps with a side of fries too. So you may as well be worshiping the dust bunny on my desk.

(April 13, 2012 at 12:07 am)TheJackel Wrote:

(April 12, 2012 at 11:15 pm)Thomas Kelly Wrote:

(April 12, 2012 at 11:09 pm)TheJackel Wrote:

(April 12, 2012 at 9:21 pm)Thomas Kelly Wrote:

(April 12, 2012 at 9:15 pm)TheJackel Wrote: On free will, I only need ask a few questions to the theists on that subject:

1. Do I have the free will to be GOD?

2. And if not to question 1, do I really have "free" will?

3. Would free will not be without constraints, limits, or boundaries?

So for the theists here that claim we have free will, I sure hope you can answer those questions for me.

May be later.

What kind of answer is "Maybe later" ? That's doesn't address anything.

I guess you deserved an answer apart from me not wanting to tell my opinions at the time.

Now I am going to assume this as some sort of protest of free will. But I apologize in advance if this assumption is wrong. So I am just going to use it for example purposes. And under example purposes only, this reply, if assumed to be a protest of free will, only shows available options you have to choose from, or only shows what you can, or what is possible for you to do. It doesn't answer the question of "free" will in the literal context. As in will without any constraints, or limits to options.. You could say you freely chose to not answer those questions at this time, but in reality it's just one possible available option you have to weigh and choose from. So you can choose to answer or not answer as it will be either one regardless of choices available.

You are thus still in a cage limited to what options you have to choose from. True free will will not have any limits what-so-ever to which would expand the entire spectrum of possibility right into impossibility as possible possibilities.

Do you have the free will to do anything you want, or are you bound to rules that prevent you from doing anything you want? So basically I see practical limited will to choose between available options within the limits of your ability.

---

(April 13, 2012 at 12:02 am)RaphielDrake Wrote: Any argument for or against freewill would be an argument from ignorance as even our best scientists are unable to discern the majority of factors that fit into our decision making.
Any argument that an all-knowing, all powerful omnipotent being gave us freewill would be inherently flawed for reasons so painfully obvious that I wouldn't expect to have to explain them to "kindergarten".
Although I would suggest to people who adamantly defend the idea they have complete control and freewill to youtube Derren Brown for the next hour and a half and prepare to have their world rocked.

It's true that we don't know how exactly the brain works, but decision making is basically weighing the options in relation any giving thing, and to self. Free will would mean that you are not bound to the limited options available. Hence the emphasis on "free".. As in not limited or bound.. Now regarding decision making, can you make a choice on a fork in the road you have no knowledge of. How do you cognitively choose left or right if you have no information that left or right exists, or what left or right would mean to you in terms of choice. Hence, it's pretty hard to choose a path cognitively without any information on what it is you are supposed to make a cognitive choice on.

I guess I am limited also it is right.

May be we will discuss more.

(April 13, 2012 at 12:07 am)TheJackel Wrote:

(April 12, 2012 at 11:15 pm)Thomas Kelly Wrote:

(April 12, 2012 at 11:09 pm)TheJackel Wrote:

(April 12, 2012 at 9:21 pm)Thomas Kelly Wrote:

(April 12, 2012 at 9:15 pm)TheJackel Wrote: On free will, I only need ask a few questions to the theists on that subject:

1. Do I have the free will to be GOD?

2. And if not to question 1, do I really have "free" will?

3. Would free will not be without constraints, limits, or boundaries?

So for the theists here that claim we have free will, I sure hope you can answer those questions for me.

May be later.

What kind of answer is "Maybe later" ? That's doesn't address anything.

I guess you deserved an answer apart from me not wanting to tell my opinions at the time.

Now I am going to assume this as some sort of protest of free will. But I apologize in advance if this assumption is wrong. So I am just going to use it for example purposes. And under example purposes only, this reply, if assumed to be a protest of free will, only shows available options you have to choose from, or only shows what you can, or what is possible for you to do. It doesn't answer the question of "free" will in the literal context. As in will without any constraints, or limits to options.. You could say you freely chose to not answer those questions at this time, but in reality it's just one possible available option you have to weigh and choose from. So you can choose to answer or not answer as it will be either one regardless of choices available.

You are thus still in a cage limited to what options you have to choose from. True free will will not have any limits what-so-ever to which would expand the entire spectrum of possibility right into impossibility as possible possibilities.

Do you have the free will to do anything you want, or are you bound to rules that prevent you from doing anything you want? So basically I see practical limited will to choose between available options within the limits of your ability.

---

(April 13, 2012 at 12:02 am)RaphielDrake Wrote: Any argument for or against freewill would be an argument from ignorance as even our best scientists are unable to discern the majority of factors that fit into our decision making.
Any argument that an all-knowing, all powerful omnipotent being gave us freewill would be inherently flawed for reasons so painfully obvious that I wouldn't expect to have to explain them to "kindergarten".
Although I would suggest to people who adamantly defend the idea they have complete control and freewill to youtube Derren Brown for the next hour and a half and prepare to have their world rocked.

It's true that we don't know how exactly the brain works, but decision making is basically weighing the options in relation any giving thing, and to self. Free will would mean that you are not bound to the limited options available. Hence the emphasis on "free".. As in not limited or bound.. Now regarding decision making, can you make a choice on a fork in the road you have no knowledge of. How do you cognitively choose left or right if you have no information that left or right exists, or what left or right would mean to you in terms of choice. Hence, it's pretty hard to choose a path cognitively without any information on what it is you are supposed to make a cognitive choice on. And this gets also gets into another issue about a true choice vs an educated guess. A true choice involves being omniscient of any choice or path option to which includes any infinite consequences that might arise from that choice.. (butterfly effect).. A educated guesses are essentially what most choices are.

Example:

Quote:If you had met Hitler when is was a newborn, would you have killed him knowing he would have committed genocide of the Jews? And if you had, would you have killed him not knowing what would happen if you do? ..Hence the result could lead to something far worse...

This called chaos theory in relation to the butterfly effect. It goes to show that choices for the most part are nothing more than educated guesses that can often be wrong, and also many times turn out right.

---

Quote:1. No, Lucifer tried that, you see where that's gotten him.

2. You have freewill to chose God's absolute grace or not to. After that it all depends on God's will.

3. Except for your choice for salvation your freewill has limits, boundaries and constraints. They were put on Lucifer after his fall, why should we be any different.

First off, you might want to read this concerning "Lucifer"... as it's usually a good idea to know what you are talking about in regards to it before using it:

http://matt-mattjwest.newsvine.com/_news...he-details

2ndly, your reply verifies lack of free will supposedly gifted upon you by your supposed to be GOD. GOD saying love him or burn isn't free will, it's an ultimatum via threat.. If I had the freedom to choose, I could do anything regardless of what your GOD says, demands, or threatens without any sort or consequence.. And giving your answer, you have reduced your self to the role of puppet to serve the Narcissism and EGO of another. This to which really makes your existence pointless.. So logically speaking, your GOD should just have created yes GOD robots vs going through all this other pointless nonsense. This thus exposes how intellectually inept this deity of yours is. Basically if you have to threaten and demand people love you, you have serious issues and problems to deal with. And from a GOD stand point, that is pretty pathetic don't ya think? And that brings us to another question:

What is a GOD if not worshiped as such?

Yes the power of relative opinion reduces the GOD concept to nothing more than pure opinion and title of opinion. This to where anything and everything could be considered as GODS, to where either all things are GODS, or to where there are no such things as GODs at all. Some people worship the cow, or see it as a divine creature. I see a cow as a potentially delicious burger on a bun with saute onions, bacon, ketchup, pickles, and lettuce. Perhaps with a side of fries too. So you may as well be worshiping the dust bunny on my desk.

What's up with that Jack? No response for me?