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RE: God, come out, come out wherever you are!
April 29, 2012 at 10:41 am
(April 29, 2012 at 10:37 am)C Rod Wrote: The church i go to, the preacher often speaks of sharing the message, inviting someone to church or your dinner or one of the community projects. Jesus said if they do not accept your message leave that town and wipe the dust from your cloak. Larry made a mistake and Bob was still never curious enough to ask or wonder so...God's judgement.
Then that just raises the question whether it's Larry's fault that Bob's in hell, or if it's Bob's own.
Quote:So which is it? Is Bob in Hell because he never believed or is he in Hell because Larry never witnessed to him? If he's in Hell because it's his own free fault, then witnessing is irrelevant. But if he's in Hell because Larry didn't witness to him, then his doom is the result of Larry not giving him enough information. It also means that it's not his fault, but someone else's.
If "Larry made a mistake" then is Bob in hell because of Larry? If Bob isn't in Hell because of Larry's mistake, then why was Larry's mistake a mistake?
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RE: God, come out, come out wherever you are!
April 29, 2012 at 10:41 am
That's who Bob is, hes able to think right, just that pesky reason and rationally getting in the way, God made reason or faith? We can allocate reason to any and everything, the why is the personal and the truth.
"Its not what your looking at that matters, its what you see." -Henry David Thoreau
♪Oh, I get lost in my mind Lost, I get lost I get Lost in my mind Lost in my Mind Yes, I get lost in my mind Lost, I get lost I get lost I get lost Oh, I get♪ -The Head and the Heart
"You are wise, witty and wonderful, but you spend too much time reading this sort of stuff.”- Frank Crane
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RE: God, come out, come out wherever you are!
April 29, 2012 at 10:42 am
(April 29, 2012 at 10:36 am)Faith No More Wrote: tearlgreyhot Wrote:Now turn into your hymnbooks for 451...
Is this a 'Farenheit 451' reference?
Um no, but that's one of my favorite books/movies so that explains why the number popped in my head so suddenly. Lol.
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RE: God, come out, come out wherever you are!
April 29, 2012 at 10:43 am
Because Larry could have done more, you can always do more.
"Its not what your looking at that matters, its what you see." -Henry David Thoreau
♪Oh, I get lost in my mind Lost, I get lost I get Lost in my mind Lost in my Mind Yes, I get lost in my mind Lost, I get lost I get lost I get lost Oh, I get♪ -The Head and the Heart
"You are wise, witty and wonderful, but you spend too much time reading this sort of stuff.”- Frank Crane
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RE: God, come out, come out wherever you are!
April 29, 2012 at 10:46 am
(April 29, 2012 at 10:43 am)C Rod Wrote: Because Larry could have done more, you can always do more.
Then Bob is in hell because of Larry's fault. So you're basically admitting that people don't go to hell because of their own free will, but because they didn't have enough information.
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RE: God, come out, come out wherever you are!
April 29, 2012 at 10:49 am
(This post was last modified: April 29, 2012 at 10:51 am by C Rod.)
What information didn't Larry have, western civilization is littered with Christianity, its Bob's fault, but Larry's no hero.
Good try though want to say there in a small village in the rainforest, and there names are still Larry and Bob. 
"Its not what your looking at that matters, its what you see." -Henry David Thoreau
♪Oh, I get lost in my mind Lost, I get lost I get Lost in my mind Lost in my Mind Yes, I get lost in my mind Lost, I get lost I get lost I get lost Oh, I get♪ -The Head and the Heart
"You are wise, witty and wonderful, but you spend too much time reading this sort of stuff.”- Frank Crane
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RE: God, come out, come out wherever you are!
April 29, 2012 at 10:58 am
(This post was last modified: April 29, 2012 at 11:11 am by Tea Earl Grey Hot.)
(April 29, 2012 at 10:49 am)C Rod Wrote: What information didn't Larry have, western civilization is littered with Christianity, its Bob's fault, but Larry's no hero.
Good try though want to say there in a small village in the rainforest, and there names are still Larry and Bob.
Western civilization is not littered with any one specific form of Christianity. There are a plethora of different brands of Christianity and none of them have the same view of salvation.
But this goes back to my more basic point, God is justified in sending unbelievers to hell because they rejected his revealed revelation in nature. This is why God's can send pre-Gospel natives to hell.
If it's a person's own fault he goes to hell, then witnessing is pointless because the person can't be blamed if the other person goes to Hell. He could choose the keep the gospel a secret it makes no difference. But if you say that keeping the gospel a secret is wrong, then you're saying the preaching the Gospel might increase the number of saved people (i.e. it does make a difference). If this is so, then some people go to Hell because of the fault of others not sharing the information of the Gospel.
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RE: God, come out, come out wherever you are!
April 29, 2012 at 11:11 am
Who says he sends people to hell for not accepting his "revealed revelation in nature" or existing before Christ. So many ways for salvation you so aptly put it. We dont know how he will ultimately judge. Don't you think Phagh Rik the village raper would be condemn, and Msea Gyrt who establishes that as wrong for the village would be saved. Jesus said many times we would be judged on what we did, i like this, "there is nothing concealed that will not be disclosed, or hidden that will not be made known."
"Its not what your looking at that matters, its what you see." -Henry David Thoreau
♪Oh, I get lost in my mind Lost, I get lost I get Lost in my mind Lost in my Mind Yes, I get lost in my mind Lost, I get lost I get lost I get lost Oh, I get♪ -The Head and the Heart
"You are wise, witty and wonderful, but you spend too much time reading this sort of stuff.”- Frank Crane
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RE: God, come out, come out wherever you are!
April 29, 2012 at 11:18 am
(April 29, 2012 at 11:11 am)C Rod Wrote: Who says he sends people to hell for not accepting his "revealed revelation in nature" or existing before Christ. So many ways for salvation you so aptly put it. We dont know how he will ultimately judge. Don't you think Phagh Rik the village raper would be condemn, and Msea Gyrt who establishes that as wrong for the village would be saved. Jesus said many times we would be judged on what we did, i like this, "there is nothing concealed that will not be disclosed, or hidden that will not be made known."
I'm dealing with here the traditional fundamentalist view of Christian salvation (both free-grace salvation and lordship salvation). Those Christians do know why someone goes to hell in their worldview. The "revealed nature" business was created by Christians in response to the pre-gospel native problem and was inspired by a speech Paul made to some philosophers in one of the NT books.
Also, "So many ways for salvation you so aptly put it. We dont know how he will ultimately judge." How do you know you're saved? If you know how you're saved, how do you not know how others aren't saved?
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"The lord doesn't work in mysterious ways, but in ways that are indistinguishable from his nonexistence."
-- George Yorgo Veenhuyzen quoted by John W. Loftus in The End of Christianity (p. 103).
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RE: God, come out, come out wherever you are!
April 29, 2012 at 11:22 am
I don't that's why its faith and grace and love and even hope all these are so hard to describe and prove but keep trying to do it.
How do i know, ill ask but thats just me.
"Its not what your looking at that matters, its what you see." -Henry David Thoreau
♪Oh, I get lost in my mind Lost, I get lost I get Lost in my mind Lost in my Mind Yes, I get lost in my mind Lost, I get lost I get lost I get lost Oh, I get♪ -The Head and the Heart
"You are wise, witty and wonderful, but you spend too much time reading this sort of stuff.”- Frank Crane
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