(April 30, 2012 at 3:11 am)teaearlgreyhot Wrote:

(April 30, 2012 at 3:03 am)Godschild Wrote: ...

It is commanded of us by the One who saves us. I do not have to do it, if I choose. God will use another who is willing, that one will be blessed and I will have missed out on the blessing. The witness will be given and the person receiving the witness has a decision to make, simple really.

That's actually somewhat close to the reason why I came to conclusion that witnessing is pointless! No matter what you do (witness or not witness) it makes no difference because the person going to hell went their by his own fault.

The fact that scripture commands believers to witness I think should be particularly troubling because it's commanding you to do the pointless.

Tell me what is the fault that sends one to hell, put a name or definition to the fault (sin is an answer, but it's not specific enough).

(April 30, 2012 at 6:26 pm)Godschild Wrote: Tell me what is the fault that sends one to hell, put a name or definition to the fault (sin is an answer, but it's not specific enough).

I'll spell it out for you.

G. O. D.

(April 30, 2012 at 6:26 pm)Godschild Wrote: ...

Tell me what is the fault that sends one to hell, put a name or definition to the fault (sin is an answer, but it's not specific enough).

No, first explain why it matters in this debate that the specific fault(s) be named? All we need to know is that the person who winds up in hell is there by his own fault. What exactly that fault is is not relevant to the discussion.

I think a good question is why theists preach and act as though anyone who has not heard of and accepted Jesus Christ before their death goes to hell, while they'll usually say, if asked, that people who never had an opportunity to accept Jesus will go to heaven. This, despite the complete lack of biblical justification for that view, and the biblical evidence against that view. For example in John 14:6 Jesus says: "I am the way, the truth, and the life. No one comes to the Father except through me." and in Acts 16:31 Paul tells the Jailer: "Believe in the Lord Jesus, and you will be saved."

If those without knowledge of Jesus are condemned, then God can hardly be considered good, for how can anyone be condemned for not knowing what they had no opportunity to learn?

If those without knowledge are saved, then how could any good and sane person bear to preach the gospel to others, knowing good and well that some will not accept thereby ensuring that they go to hell?

(April 30, 2012 at 7:12 pm)libalchris Wrote: ...

If those without knowledge are saved, then how could any good and sane person bear to preach the gospel to others, knowing good and well that some will not accept thereby ensuring that they go to hell?

The usual response from Christians is that people who never heard the gospel are justly thrown in hell because they didn't believe in God through his revelation in nature. I dealt with this in my opening post.

(April 30, 2012 at 7:16 pm)teaearlgreyhot Wrote: The usual response from Christians is that people who never heard the gospel are justly thrown in hell because they didn't believe in God through his revelation in nature. I dealt with this in my opening post.

This is true. The problem was never really solved in the first place. The bible says only through believing in Jesus can one be saved. Even if nature did reveal the glory of A god, it in no way reveals specifically the existence of the God of the bible, let alone the message that a guy named Jesus died on the cross and that they have to believe and accept it in order to be saved.

No matter how much Christians might like to think it, if you were to raise a kid up from infancy away from all human culture it would not grow to believe in the God of the bible unless taught it.

(April 30, 2012 at 7:23 pm)libalchris Wrote: ...

This is true. The problem was never really solved in the first place. The bible says only through believing in Jesus can one be saved. Even if nature did reveal the glory of A god, it in no way reveals specifically the existence of the God of the bible, let alone the message that a guy named Jesus died on the cross and that they have to believe and accept it in order to be saved.

No matter how much Christians might like to think it, if you were to raise a kid up from infancy away from all human culture it would not grow to believe in the God of the bible unless taught it.

If I remember correctly, some Christians think this idea is expressed in here: http://niv.scripturetext.com/acts/17.htm

(April 30, 2012 at 7:51 pm)teaearlgreyhot Wrote:

(April 30, 2012 at 7:23 pm)libalchris Wrote: ...

This is true. The problem was never really solved in the first place. The bible says only through believing in Jesus can one be saved. Even if nature did reveal the glory of A god, it in no way reveals specifically the existence of the God of the bible, let alone the message that a guy named Jesus died on the cross and that they have to believe and accept it in order to be saved.

No matter how much Christians might like to think it, if you were to raise a kid up from infancy away from all human culture it would not grow to believe in the God of the bible unless taught it.

If I remember correctly, some Christians think this idea is expressed in here: http://niv.scripturetext.com/acts/17.htm

This would, if anything, further the point I just made. They could not, in any way, pin down the message of Christ.

(April 30, 2012 at 8:02 pm)libalchris Wrote: ...

This would, if anything, further the point I just made. They could not, in any way, pin down the message of Christ.

You're probably right. I'm just working with what the most theists think are the most plausible solutions to their problems.

One simply denying it does not condemn them, they will be judged for everything they did. There are reasons for do everything, your reward for a life of rejection is the reason for hell, not just the rejection.