(April 30, 2012 at 11:11 pm)libalchris Wrote: Did you read my bible quote? No one goes to the Father except through me? As for being judged by their sins, how can they be judged if they were never taught it was wrong? The wages of sin is death. That's all sin. So, according to what you just said, the only way for a non-believer to go to heaven is for them to be perfect. Of course you may disagree, and say God is more just than that, but you cannot justify it biblically. All you can argue is that "God is just and we can not know his mind"

Yes and gave you an answer. They are judged by the nature of God, man was made in God's image, that is having the nature of God imprinted on them, and yet not necessarily knowing who God is. So being taught is not necessarily necessary.

libalchris Wrote:so what verses do you have that support the idea that nonbelievers are judged only by their sins if they never had the opportunity to learn of the gospel?

Everyone who is not covered by the atonement of Christ is judged for their sin. Nonbelievers and those who never had an opportunity to hear of Christ. Nonbelievers have no recourse, those who did not hear of Christ are judged for their sin according to the nature of God. Our just God will then determine their future.

libalchris Wrote:If those without knowledge of Jesus are condemned, then God can hardly be considered good, for how can anyone be condemned for not knowing what they had no opportunity to learn?

Man is made in God's image, man has knowledge of God's nature, yet not necessarily knowing who God is.

libalchris Wrote:Just according to what standards? God's? In that case whatever God does is just, and we have no say in the matter, which is hardly agreeable.

Yes and yes. You do not have to agree with God, however it want do you any good, as you said, whatever God does is just.

libalchris Wrote:Personally, it seems to me that any reasonable person would not spread the gospel. That way, if God is truly just, people will be judged by who they are, not by whether or not they believed in God.

You have a great misunderstanding of how the lost are judged. You come under judgement because you're a nonbeliever, then God will judge the life you have lived according to His perfect nature. Since no one can stand up to that nature, one is condemned. Because all are judged according to God's perfect nature, would it not be prudent to have Christ as your shield, so the Father can not see the sins you bore.

You should read Ryft's first reply to teaearlgreyhot in this post.[/quote]

I believe I've shown why it is good for Christians to spread the Gospel of Christ, without Him you will come under judgement, then your life will be judged according to God's perfect nature, have you been perfect today.

If man is made in God's image, then how are there so many images of man? Which man was lucky enough to actually be made in God's image?

It's pretty perverse if you think about it. Just think about all of the people killed in the name of God. The murderers are believers yet they kill and, by definition, will gain entrance into Heaven.

(May 1, 2012 at 12:01 am)Matt231 Wrote:

(April 30, 2012 at 11:50 pm)Godschild Wrote:

(April 30, 2012 at 11:20 pm)Matt231 Wrote: How has he earned your worship? What has he done for YOU? .... He has done nothing to EARN worship.

You're mistaken when you say God should earn your worship, it does not work that way. God desires for you to give Him worship out of the freewill He has given, equate worship and love, God desires both and forces neither.

I don't believe God must earn my worship. I would not worship him even if he did exist. But how am I supposed to believe in something that I have never seen or experienced? If he wanted my worship so badly, he would ask me for it, not expect me to put my faith in something that has no evidence to support it and is no different than any other myth.

How's that now, read what I've put in bold above, and tell me again you do not think God has to earn our worship.
Ask for it you say, why should God ask a creature He created to worship Him, it's a given we should, most don't and few do,why, because the few realize we should because He first loved us, that creation thing you see.

I never saw or experienced God until the day He convicted me, all of a sudden I saw things I was doing as wrong, things I had never given a thought of being wrong. The experience gave me a lot to consider, a lot to ponder over, and when I had I realized I was sinning, that became a burden that this stubborn man lived with for many, many years. One day I realized I was tired of the burden and wanted it gone, I knew how because I read the Bible, so I did what was in scripture and was freed of the burden, from then own I have experienced God in many wonderful ways, and have seen His work in action, though I've yet to see Him in person. Just as you have seen the wind in action but have never seen the wind.

(May 1, 2012 at 1:58 am)Christi Wrote: If man is made in God's image, then how are there so many images of man? Which man was lucky enough to actually be made in God's image?

Answer his questions Godchild. I'm dying to hear your response. :-)

(May 1, 2012 at 2:38 am)Godschild Wrote:

(May 1, 2012 at 12:01 am)Matt231 Wrote:

(April 30, 2012 at 11:50 pm)Godschild Wrote:

(April 30, 2012 at 11:20 pm)Matt231 Wrote: How has he earned your worship? What has he done for YOU? .... He has done nothing to EARN worship.

You're mistaken when you say God should earn your worship, it does not work that way. God desires for you to give Him worship out of the freewill He has given, equate worship and love, God desires both and forces neither.

I don't believe God must earn my worship. I would not worship him even if he did exist. But how am I supposed to believe in something that I have never seen or experienced? If he wanted my worship so badly, he would ask me for it, not expect me to put my faith in something that has no evidence to support it and is no different than any other myth.

How's that now, read what I've put in bold above, and tell me again you do not think God has to earn our worship.
Ask for it you say, why should God ask a creature He created to worship Him, it's a given we should, most don't and few do,why, because the few realize we should because He first loved us, that creation thing you see.

I never saw or experienced God until the day He convicted me, all of a sudden I saw things I was doing as wrong, things I had never given a thought of being wrong. The experience gave me a lot to consider, a lot to ponder over, and when I had I realized I was sinning, that became a burden that this stubborn man lived with for many, many years. One day I realized I was tired of the burden and wanted it gone, I knew how because I read the Bible, so I did what was in scripture and was freed of the burden, from then own I have experienced God in many wonderful ways, and have seen His work in action, though I've yet to see Him in person. Just as you have seen the wind in action but have never seen the wind.

How is it "freewill" when there is an "or else" along with? You say God forces neither, but the belief in the existence of a Hell proves otherwise. If one believes in God and what The Bible states, one is to believe that the punishment for not following God's path is to be banished to Hell. There are literally so many passages in The Bible that prove God (as defined in The Bible) does not exist.

I am not saying that there is not an entity out there that could be considered a God. What I am saying is that it's not in The Bible (too lazy for italics). The Bible's definition of God is full of false reasoning.

If you want to believe in something and live a righteous life, do so on your own, but not because some book told you what exists and what does not exist.

(May 1, 2012 at 1:58 am)Christi Wrote: If man is made in God's image, then how are there so many images of man? Which man was lucky enough to actually be made in God's image?

It's pretty perverse if you think about it. Just think about all of the people killed in the name of God. The murderers are believers yet they kill and, by definition, will gain entrance into Heaven.

By definition you do not know they will. Now for murderers, Emperor Commodus gathered up all the dwarfs, crippled and freaks his guards could find around Rome and drug them into the Colosseum. There they were given meat cleavers and ordered to hack each other to death.
Christi, your first question, surely you're more intelligent than that. Now that I look at the second question, I'm beginning to have doubts.

Welcome to the forum,

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(May 1, 2012 at 2:54 am)Christi Wrote:

(May 1, 2012 at 2:38 am)Godschild Wrote:

(May 1, 2012 at 12:01 am)Matt231 Wrote:

(April 30, 2012 at 11:50 pm)Godschild Wrote:

(April 30, 2012 at 11:20 pm)Matt231 Wrote: How has he earned your worship? What has he done for YOU? .... He has done nothing to EARN worship.

You're mistaken when you say God should earn your worship, it does not work that way. God desires for you to give Him worship out of the freewill He has given, equate worship and love, God desires both and forces neither.

I don't believe God must earn my worship. I would not worship him even if he did exist. But how am I supposed to believe in something that I have never seen or experienced? If he wanted my worship so badly, he would ask me for it, not expect me to put my faith in something that has no evidence to support it and is no different than any other myth.

How's that now, read what I've put in bold above, and tell me again you do not think God has to earn our worship.
Ask for it you say, why should God ask a creature He created to worship Him, it's a given we should, most don't and few do,why, because the few realize we should because He first loved us, that creation thing you see.

I never saw or experienced God until the day He convicted me, all of a sudden I saw things I was doing as wrong, things I had never given a thought of being wrong. The experience gave me a lot to consider, a lot to ponder over, and when I had I realized I was sinning, that became a burden that this stubborn man lived with for many, many years. One day I realized I was tired of the burden and wanted it gone, I knew how because I read the Bible, so I did what was in scripture and was freed of the burden, from then own I have experienced God in many wonderful ways, and have seen His work in action, though I've yet to see Him in person. Just as you have seen the wind in action but have never seen the wind.

How is it "freewill" when there is an "or else" along with? You say God forces neither, but the belief in the existence of a Hell proves otherwise. If one believes in God and what The Bible states, one is to believe that the punishment for not following God's path is to be banished to Hell. There are literally so many passages in The Bible that prove God (as defined in The Bible) does not exist.

I am not saying that there is not an entity out there that could be considered a God. What I am saying is that it's not in The Bible (too lazy for italics). The Bible's definition of God is full of false reasoning.

If you want to believe in something and live a righteous life, do so on your own, but not because some book told you what exists and what does not exist.

Through the scriptures God has revealed Himself to me, that is why I can trust them.

But they existed, because God created them. By definition, God loves all of his creations.

Other than that, no, not intelligent enough to understand what you meant.

(May 1, 2012 at 2:50 am)RaphielDrake Wrote:

(May 1, 2012 at 1:58 am)Christi Wrote: If man is made in God's image, then how are there so many images of man? Which man was lucky enough to actually be made in God's image?

Answer his questions Godchild. I'm dying to hear your response. :-)

God is infinite, so wouldn't that mean an infinite number of images.
That answer is as dumb as your request.

(May 1, 2012 at 3:06 am)Godschild Wrote:

(May 1, 2012 at 2:50 am)RaphielDrake Wrote:

(May 1, 2012 at 1:58 am)Christi Wrote: If man is made in God's image, then how are there so many images of man? Which man was lucky enough to actually be made in God's image?

Answer his questions Godchild. I'm dying to hear your response. :-)

God is infinite, so wouldn't that mean an infinite number of images.
That answer is as dumb as your request.

Would that include Joseph Fritzle among the "infinite" number of images? How about Hitler or Stalin? There are some people out there who get their kicks smearing their own feces overs themselves. Its called "skat" I believe. Are they among the "infinite" number of Gods images in which we are all supposedly made in?
Sounds like God is a schitzophrenic, genocidal, perverted piece of shit wouldn't you say?

Tell you what, you obviously didn't think your reply through. Lets start over, try again. I'm *peaking* with anticipation of your next retort.:-)

(May 1, 2012 at 3:05 am)Christi Wrote: But they existed, because God created them. By definition, God loves all of his creations.

Other than that, no, not intelligent enough to understand what you meant.

Yes, He does, but all His creation doesn't love Him. Go figure.

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@ RaphielDrake, I did think it through and have again, I still think you are quite dumb.