Quote:If anything, there are fewer risks with unprotected homosexual sex, especially in ancient times. Homosexual sex cannot lead to pregnancy, and pregnancy can be dangerous, even more so in biblical times.

Just to clarify for argument's sake. You are saying that pregnancy is far more dangeous than HIV or AIDS?
------------------------------------------

Quote:In the news stories you're speaking of, it is not just a relgious activity (like praying) in a public place (like a church), it's a physical display on government property, which creates an unnecessary entanglement of government and religion.

You are wrong, very wrong. it was a GIFT from a GRADUATING class to their SCHOOL> Government (state and federal) had no part in the matter. You are reading into this far too much.

There was NO violation of the supposed establishment claus.

Quote:It's not only atheists that contend these practices

Then why is it ONLY atheists who are bringing these lawsuits?

Quote:Just because we don't read the establishment clause the same way you do, doesn't mean your reading is the correct one. Mere assertion and dismissed as such.

As is yours. You have nothing to make your reading greater than anyone else's. Yours is based upon your unbelief and that is not enough.

Quote:It's not the offense. It's the principle, and the law

Wrong. itis the offense, you just use the principle and the law as an excuse to force out information you do not like. Atheists are very intolerant and spoiled little babies.

Quote:American law starts with the Constitution, but does not end with it

Then the constitution is of no value and needs to be struck down, replaced by subjective opinion reliant upon the whims of those who are in power. All you are advocating is anarchy.

Quote:We're going to be the majority of the public one day

Yes you will and you will have no MORAL fiber or standard to guide your actions. Then you will see how dangerous atheism is and how wrong you are.

Quote:Religous freedom is not the entitlement to government endorsement

IF there is such a thing as religious freedom, it must apply to all even governments or there is no such thing as religious freedom./

Quote:Tolerance doesn't include not exposing you to our opinions

If you merely expressed your opinions then there would be NO problems BUT atheists do not. They go to the courts and FORCE their opinions on others. (or try to force).

If we want to take this a step further, you will notice that their is NO constitutional right to atheism. Read it without doing any eisegetical work and you will see your unbelief is unconstitutional.

---

P.S. Atheists claim that atheism is not a belief or a religion thus it is SOL.

(May 7, 2012 at 5:20 pm)DeeTee Wrote: If you merely expressed your opinions then there would be NO problems BUT atheists do not. They go to the courts and FORCE their opinions on others. (or try to force).

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Inquisition

The word FORCE is an interesting one, isn't it?

I can't recall a greater example of views being forced upon a populace than the abuse of power by the Church over the centuries.

I suggest some reading for you; http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Boy_Who_Cried_Wolf

Hey, DT, your ignorance is showing. How embarrassing.

(May 7, 2012 at 3:56 pm)Abishalom Wrote: Pregnancies can be dangerous sometimes. But you've got to be freakin kidding me...

That's a joke right? Now you're just making baseless assertions. Well this has been a nice conversation. But I've got some things to take care of. Yall have a good day.

Sometimes? Try all the time. Here are some examples.

Quote:Normal, frequent or expectable temporary side effects of pregnancy:

exhaustion (weariness common from first weeks)
altered appetite and senses of taste and smell
nausea and vomiting (50% of women, first trimester)
heartburn and indigestion
constipation
weight gain
dizziness and light-headedness
bloating, swelling, fluid retention
hemmorhoids
abdominal cramps
yeast infections
congested, bloody nose
acne and mild skin disorders
skin discoloration (chloasma, face and abdomen)
mild to severe backache and strain
increased headaches
difficulty sleeping, and discomfort while sleeping
increased urination and incontinence
bleeding gums
pica
breast pain and discharge
swelling of joints, leg cramps, joint pain
difficulty sitting, standing in later pregnancy
inability to take regular medications
shortness of breath
higher blood pressure
hair loss
tendency to anemia
curtailment of ability to participate in some sports and activities
infection including from serious and potentially fatal disease
(pregnant women are immune suppressed compared with non-pregnant women, and are more susceptible to fungal and certain other diseases)
extreme pain on delivery
hormonal mood changes, including normal post-partum depression
continued post-partum exhaustion and recovery period (exacerbated if a c-section -- major surgery -- is required, sometimes taking up to a full year to fully recover)

Normal, expectable, or frequent PERMANENT side effects of pregnancy:

stretch marks (worse in younger women)
loose skin
permanent weight gain or redistribution
abdominal and vaginal muscle weakness
pelvic floor disorder (occurring in as many as 35% of middle-aged former child-bearers and 50% of elderly former child-bearers, associated with urinary and rectal incontinence, discomfort and reduced quality of life)
changes to breasts
varicose veins
scarring from episiotomy or c-section
other permanent aesthetic changes to the body (all of these are downplayed by women, because the culture values youth and beauty)
increased proclivity for hemmorhoids
loss of dental and bone calcium (cavities and osteoporosis)

Occasional complications and side effects:

spousal/partner abuse
hyperemesis gravidarum
temporary and permanent injury to back
severe scarring requiring later surgery (especially after additional pregnancies)
dropped (prolapsed) uterus (especially after additional pregnancies, and other pelvic floor weaknesses -- 11% of women, including cystocele, rectocele, and enterocele)
pre-eclampsia (edema and hypertension, the most common complication of pregnancy, associated with eclampsia, and affecting 7 - 10% of pregnancies)
eclampsia (convulsions, coma during pregnancy or labor, high risk of death)
gestational diabetes
placenta previa
anemia (which can be life-threatening)
thrombocytopenic purpura
severe cramping
embolism (blood clots)
medical disability requiring full bed rest (frequently ordered during part of many pregnancies varying from days to months for health of either mother or baby)
diastasis recti, also torn abdominal muscles
mitral valve stenosis (most common cardiac complication)
serious infection and disease (e.g. increased risk of tuberculosis)
hormonal imbalance
ectopic pregnancy (risk of death)
broken bones (ribcage, "tail bone")
hemorrhage and
numerous other complications of delivery
refractory gastroesophageal reflux disease
aggravation of pre-pregnancy diseases and conditions (e.g. epilepsy is present in .5% of pregnant women, and the pregnancy alters drug metabolism and treatment prospects all the while it increases the number and frequency of seizures)
severe post-partum depression and psychosis
research now indicates a possible link between ovarian cancer and female fertility treatments, including "egg harvesting" from infertile women and donors
research also now indicates correlations between lower breast cancer survival rates and proximity in time to onset of cancer of last pregnancy
research also indicates a correlation between having six or more pregnancies and a risk of coronary and cardiovascular disease

Less common (but serious) complications:

peripartum cardiomyopathy
cardiopulmonary arrest
magnesium toxicity
severe hypoxemia/acidosis
massive embolism
increased intracranial pressure, brainstem infarction
molar pregnancy, gestational trophoblastic disease (like a pregnancy-induced cancer)
malignant arrhythmia
circulatory collapse
placental abruption
obstetric fistula

More permanent side effects:

future infertility
permanent disability
death.

Maternal mortality is so high in the developing world (1 in 48) that it is customary for Tanzanian women about to give birth to bid farewell to their older children.
-- Michele Landsberg, TORONTO STAR, Sat., Sept. 30, 2000,
p. L1 "U.N. Executive Council Fights Inequality With Shocking Facts and Figures"

Pregnancy/childbirth was a leading cause of death
of American women of childbearing age at the turn of the century.
It remains a leading cause of death of women in many countries in the world.
What women aren't told about childbirth:
http://www.alternet.org/healthwellness/6...age=entire

All pregnant women, by virtue of their pregnant status,
face some level of maternal risk. Data suggest that around
40% of all pregnant women have some complication.
About 15% ... [have complications] that are potentially life-threatening.

If a person put this sort of effort and risk into some other venture, would we think it "equality" if someone else got equal credit for the accomplishment, or equal rights in the outcome, just because he had participated -- at his own request or behest -- for a few pleasurable and "fully compensated" minutes?
Before you tell me about "father's rights," I want to know: what did he put in on his end toward an equivalent, albeit different kind of investment? -- liz

Girls aged 15-19 are twice as likely to die from childbirth
as women in their twenties; those under age 15 are five times as likely to die.

"Can a function so perilous that in spite of the best care, it kills thousands of women every year, that leaves at least a quarter of the women more or less invalided, and a majority with permanent anatomic changes of structure, that is always attended by severe pain and tearing of tissues, and that kills 3%-5% of children -- can such a function be called normal?"

-- Joseph, B. BeLee, obstetrician, quoted in Wendy Mitchinson, Giving Birth in Canada 1900-1950 (2002) Toronto Press, ISBN 0-8020-8471-0, a history of childbirth in Canada
Why would any woman have a late-term abortion?
The long-term effects of an abortion.

NEW: major research study on the effects of abortion
[Information regarding "PASS" -- "Post-abortion Stress Syndrome"]
Induced First-Trimester Abortion and Risk of Mental Disorder
Trine Munk-Olsen, Ph.D., et. al
N Engl J Med 2011; 364:332-339
January 27, 2011


"I believe, as a wage-earning woman, that if I make the great sacrifice of strength and health and even risk my life, to have a child, I should certainly not do so if, on some future occasion, the man can say that the child belongs to him by law and he will take it from me and I shall see it only three times a year!
-- lsadora Duncan in her biography, My Life (1927)

M. Fathallah, M.D. (researcher)
World's Top Five Causes Of Disease Burden In Young People And Adults Ages 15-44
Female: 1. Maternity 2. Sexually Transmitted Diseases 3. Tuberculosis 4. HIV Infection 5. Depression
Male: 1. HIV Infection 2. Tuberculosis 3. Motor Vehicle Injury 4. Homicide And Violence 5. War

Clearly, if reproduction wasn't such a biological imperative, big pharma would be selling anti-fertility meds.

DeeTee Wrote:Just to clarify for argument's sake. You are saying that pregnancy is far more dangeous than HIV or AIDS?

No I am not. HIV and AIDS are equally likely to be spread by homosexuality and heterosexuality, and I said that heterosexual sex can have pregnancy as well.

(May 7, 2012 at 5:26 pm)Tobie Wrote: No I am not. HIV and AIDS are equally likely to be spread by homosexuality and heterosexuality, and I said that heterosexual sex can have pregnancy as well.

In fact, in the case of a spread of the disease in heterosexual couples the child is nearly always afflicted by the disease as well, meaning the unintended suffering of at least a third person.

(May 7, 2012 at 5:20 pm)DeeTee Wrote: Just to clarify for argument's sake. You are saying that pregnancy is far more dangeous than HIV or AIDS?

It is the leading cause of death for women. Greater than HIV.

(May 7, 2012 at 5:20 pm)DeeTee Wrote: You are wrong, very wrong. it was a GIFT from a GRADUATING class to their SCHOOL> Government (state and federal) had no part in the matter. You are reading into this far too much.

There was NO violation of the supposed establishment claus.

The establishment clause was violated the moment they chose to display that gift in the public forum.

(May 7, 2012 at 5:20 pm)DeeTee Wrote: Then why is it ONLY atheists who are bringing these lawsuits?

Because, unlike Christians, we don't break the law first and then ask for permission.

(May 7, 2012 at 5:20 pm)DeeTee Wrote: Yes you will and you will have no MORAL fiber or standard to guide your actions. Then you will see how dangerous atheism is and how wrong you are.

As opposed to the fine moral fiber of raping, pillaging, murdering Christians that led us into the dark ages?

Ok guys, I'm all caught up. So we've established Abishalom is a thick headed cunt incapable of answering a question about his views in a forthright manner because the answer makes him look like a bigot. He continually dodges the issue and in doing so betrays his own prejudices and makes clear his own position. Have I missed anything out?

I find it so much easier being a person with a moral compass, makes questions like this decidedly simple to answer.

(May 7, 2012 at 6:01 pm)ElDinero Wrote: Ok guys, I'm all caught up. So we've established Abishalom is a thick headed cunt incapable of answering a question about his views in a forthright manner because the answer makes him look like a bigot. He continually dodges the issue and in doing so betrays his own prejudices and makes clear his own position. Have I missed anything out?

I find it so much easier being a person with a moral compass, makes questions like this decidedly simple to answer.

Somebody's riding their high horse. Well glad you have a "moral compass". Anyway, I already said I do not condone homosexuality. That's my view. You're just being a tool. You begged me to answer your little hypothetical yet highly unrealistic scenario. How about this...let's do a survey...how many homosexual males get caught in the act by 2 or more people. I'm willing to say it almost never happens. I never dodged your question, you're just being unrealistic and in a sense you're no less the bigot you accuse me of being. So get over it.

I think it's about time we used the troll spray on Abishalom