(May 16, 2012 at 5:53 pm)kılıç_mehmet Wrote:

(May 16, 2012 at 5:44 pm)Tobie Wrote: The Germans may have had a more powerful military force, but that in no way makes them inherently better as a race. You rest on the laurels of people who lived centuries ago, like Alp Arslan. Winning a few battles 1,000 years ago does not make you superior. If the superiority of a race was to be determined by past military history, it would be the French we'd be surrendering to, not the turks.

Their military force aside, Germans were also a very disciplined people. Their national pride and ethnic consciousness was unparalelled, and they had the willpower to work towards a common goal.
Obviously, they are a much better race in that regard.
True, they had once feasted upon the remains of the Romans, but they managed to transcend this, and did not adopt the Latin identity, unlike some others(French, English and Spanish), and were responsible for the creation of many dynasties, including the Rurik Dynasty in Russia.
Turks and Germans are very alike, however, they lacked the innovative and expansionist spirit of Turks, and some other peoples like the Slavs.

Our superiority does not just rest on Alp Arslan. He is just one amongst the many we can try to be worthy of in the future.
Our past military history is greater than the French, for the French are known to have fought only very few people throughout the ages.
Their only significant contribution to Europe was to save it from the Arabs . And that, by the way, was done by the "Franks" who were a Germanic tribe, from whom the French have adopted the name from.
Gauls, who call themselves by a Germanic name, who speak latin?
Obviously they do not even qualify.

1) The Rurik dynasty in Russia was founded by the Rus tribe of Vikings (called Varangians by the Greeks and Slavs) , not Germans

2) The French still have the best military record in Europe, if not the world.

3) The French have made many significant contributions to the world, in Art and Science especially.

4) Your entire case for superiority seems to rest on military leaders that are long since dead, such as Temujin and Alp Arslan. Their military prowess does not make you superior to every non-turk on this world. The Arabs, which you seem to disparage so often, have had just as impressive leaders, such as Khalid ibn al-Walid. So have the British, the Americans, the Germans.

Quote:1) The Rurik dynasty in Russia was founded by the Rus tribe of Vikings (called Varangians by the Greeks and Slavs) , not Germans

I make no such distinction. They are all Germanic peoples. They share a common history, and a common blood.

Quote:2) The French still have the best military record in Europe, if not the world.

"Military record"? Tell me more of this military record.

Quote:3) The French have made many significant contributions to the world, in Art and Science especially.

Oh? The Mona Lisa is now at the museum of Louvré. But it was not painted by a Frenchman. Similarly, Madame Curie, was a Polack, not a Frenchperson.
The French, in my eyes, are not really much of a great people(if a people at all). They even have an army made up from foreigners, mercenaries.
Besides, they are rude and not very hospitable.

Quote:4) Your entire case for superiority seems to rest on military leaders that are long since dead, such as Temujin and Alp Arslan. Their military prowess does not make you superior to every non-turk on this world. The Arabs, which you seem to disparage so often, have had just as impressive leaders, such as Khalid ibn al-Walid. So have the British, the Americans, the Germans.

Really, you know not much about our history, nor our people. We have had many great people who had contributed to arts and sciences. They are not made known to the west, however.
Besides, I've already said that we do not measure our superiority by our military history alone.
Arabs...Well, I could say that they are superior to the French, but still not superior to us Turks. Their only claims of superiority rest on the moslem religion, due to the prophet being an Arab. They certainly have forgotten rather easily how the Turks they had bought as slaves to serve as their bodyguard have ruled over them for centuries, all the while being the protectors of the religion of Islam and the holy lands.
They are greedy and lazy, unlike their semitic brothers, the Jews, who are also greedy, but hardworking.

Going back to the base of this thread, yeah, we hear all the time about how "miserable" atheists are, filled with anger and hatred (toward God?). It's like they think disbelieving fairy tales that lack any sort of objective evidence is some sort of mental illness.

Yes, some atheists are miserable. We are miserable for all sorts of reasons - war and poverty, health problems (including pain). We have depression, anxiety, psychosis, PTSD, and many other mental and emotional issues. We have people, places, and pets we love, and we lose these, and we grieve like anyone else. However, we deal with these problems head-on - the issue or problem is what it is, there is no sugar daddy in the sky who will make it all better. We will never see a deceased loved one again. God won't solve poverty - but some kinds of actions can help relieve it - getting a job, or getting assistance from other people. God won't heal our diseases or injuries, but medical science may be able to heal the disease/injury, or may be able to alleviate some of the suffering involved with it. God won't stop our lonliness, but finding other people to do things with and/or talk to will stop lonliness. Those people do not have to be in a church.

We can enjoy our day-to-day lives as much as anyone. We may have family or friends we are meaning something to in those daily lives. We may be doing things that please ourselves. We can do things to help our communities.... or do things to hurt our communities and/or people in it (e.g., crime). We'll tend to reap what we sow, whether it is from some religious teaching or our mundane reputation or credit rating.

In a couple hundred years, very few of us will be remembered for anything. Even if we've had children, how much does any of us know of our ancestors who were born around 1800? Not much - most of us don't even know their names. Having children won't help that. A few people do things that we know about for much longer, but that won't last forever. Sooner or later, humankind will be extinct. For that matter, in the very long term, the universe will not exist in its present form - "big crunch" or the sun burning out. WHO will any of this have any "meaning" in the very long term? Without a God, a universal observer, there is no one to have any "meaning".

Things do not always have a big, cosmelogical meaning. What is the meaning of my wearing a yellow dress today, in the long haul? What is the huge meaning behind my eating macaroni today? Sometimes things are just what they seem to be, and don't have any particular meaning or represent anything beyond what they are. I am not so egotistical to believe that I, personally, will have any larger "meaning", or will make any huge difference in the universe. Granted, some people do make a bigger difference on more, for good or bad, but those are barely remembered at all in a couple of thousand years - NOTHING in the 13 billion years or so the universe has existed. Anything on this planet is inconsequential on the probably 1 octillian or so planets in the Milky Way.

That doesn't stop me from doing things for my friends, family, and community. I don't need to be the center of attention for "God" either. If God exists, he'd have a lot more to worry about than what, precisely, I'm thinking about or reading.

(May 14, 2012 at 2:11 pm)Annik Wrote: Atheists are miserable.

I hear this a lot from the religious. They like to claim that we're some kind of empty shells that just sloth around without some kind of religion to motivate us. I have depression and anxiety (Thanks, Momma! <3 ), but I have to say that it's much easier to overcome now. I've never felt so happy, alive and free.

(May 16, 2012 at 4:27 pm)kılıç_mehmet Wrote: Well, I really don't know as what you define yourself. It probably is nothing really important to speak of anyways.
Therefore, it's worthless, really. If you had defined yourself according to your family history, if you have one, and tried to be worthy of it, I'd measure your worth according to that. But really, who are you but a single man?
What worth do you really possess in relevance to our world?

Whatever wroth I may have or relevance i may possess to the world, I can proudly say that its value comes from me. Unlike you, I have not stolen it off my ancestors.

(May 16, 2012 at 4:27 pm)kılıç_mehmet Wrote: I give out my regards to those who are worthy of it. My family is worthy of it. I don't know if your family is of any worth to you, however.

Without having a rational standard to determine that worth, how do you determine if they are worthy?

(May 16, 2012 at 4:27 pm)kılıç_mehmet Wrote: Is your existence, something in which you cherish so much, not enough for you? What do you want? A pony?

Most certainly not. Why would I be satisfied with a plain old pony? I want a lot more than that.

(May 16, 2012 at 4:27 pm)kılıç_mehmet Wrote: My worth is measured in how well I can be of service to my family.
If you are unable to understand this, I guess it brings up a few questions on whether you have a family or not, or whether you value this family.
With your overtly selfish behavior, and excessive individualism, I'm sure that you'll eventually destroy yourself.

Like I said, your self-worth is borrowed, not your own. You are a slave, whose highest moral purpose is serving others and your worth is determined by your master. Self-destruction is the goal of your moral code. Self-actualization is the goal of mine. Take a wild guess who is gonna destroy himself first.

Quote:Whatever wroth I may have or relevance i may possess to the world, I can proudly say that its value comes from me. Unlike you, I have not stolen it off my ancestors.

You cannot steal something which is already yours.

Quote:Without having a rational standard to determine that worth, how do you determine if they are worthy?

Really, if being beneficial to your own people isn't rational, I don't know what is.

Quote:Most certainly not. Why would I be satisfied with a plain old pony? I want a lot more than that.

What? What is the value of "regard" for you?

Quote:Like I said, your self-worth is borrowed, not your own. You are a slave, whose highest moral purpose is serving others and your worth is determined by your master. Self-destruction is the goal of your moral code. Self-actualization is the goal of mine. Take a wild guess who is gonna destroy himself first.

Borrowed? You cannot borrow something that already belongs to you.I guess you do not know what the term "heritage" means. Like, if you inherit something from your grandfather, have you stolen, or borrowed it from him? Or did you just claim your birthright to this piece of property, amount of liquidty or whatever he left for you?
And who is this master of mine, I wonder. I have many masters, both in terms of political ideology, and in my engineering courses. Having a master to guide you is nothing to be ashamed of, nor is it a form of slavery. Could you think of Chemical Engineering without consulting Perry' s Handbook? Obviously, you can't. Likewise, you cannot think of becoming a Turkist without reading and absorbing the related material. Making things up is the way of lunatics and people with excessive egos, like yourself. And such people always end up destroying themselves. I just hope you don't hurt others in this goal of "self-actualisation".

(May 17, 2012 at 3:50 am)kılıç_mehmet Wrote: You cannot steal something which is already yours.

Nothing is yours unless you earn it.

(May 17, 2012 at 3:50 am)kılıç_mehmet Wrote: Really, if being beneficial to your own people isn't rational, I don't know what is.

And therein lies your ignorance. Rationality isn't determined by what something is, it is determined by its cause.

(May 17, 2012 at 3:50 am)kılıç_mehmet Wrote: What? What is the value of "regard" for you?

Whose regard?

(May 17, 2012 at 3:50 am)kılıç_mehmet Wrote: Borrowed? You cannot borrow something that already belongs to you.I guess you do not know what the term "heritage" means. Like, if you inherit something from your grandfather, have you stolen, or borrowed it from him? Or did you just claim your birthright to this piece of property, amount of liquidty or whatever he left for you?

And that is why you are depraved. Someone else's achievements, someone else's property is morally yours only if you earn it. Inheritance is just another form of taking something that doesn't belong to you.

(May 17, 2012 at 3:50 am)kılıç_mehmet Wrote: And who is this master of mine, I wonder. I have many masters, both in terms of political ideology, and in my engineering courses. Having a master to guide you is nothing to be ashamed of, nor is it a form of slavery. Could you think of Chemical Engineering without consulting Perry' s Handbook? Obviously, you can't. Likewise, you cannot think of becoming a Turkist without reading and absorbing the related material. Making things up is the way of lunatics and people with excessive egos, like yourself. And such people always end up destroying themselves. I just hope you don't hurt others in this goal of "self-actualisation".

Clearly, you do not understand the difference between a master and a teacher. I guess that's because your teacher is your master. What he has asked for in return for his guidance is slavish devotion and blind obedience and, like a dog, you have given it to him. A teacher, on the other hand, would not lay any claim on your life or your achievements in exchange for guidance. Its people like you who end up destroying themselves because you have placed your life at other's disposal.

Quote:Nothing is yours unless you earn it.

Have you "earned" your right to a body to live in?
Obviously, you only had to be born, and that was not by your merit either. It was by the merit of your parents, and especially your mother who gave birth to you, and carried you in her belly for nine months. You practically gained life without doing anything. Without them, you would not even be here. So, whatever you've "earned" in this life are not due to you, but first and foremost, due to them. If they did not feed you, you'd starve. If they did not sent you to school, you'd be illiterate.
By your words, nothing in this world is "yours", actually, not your life, your home, family and etc.
Your way of thinking is very faulty.

Quote:And therein lies your ignorance. Rationality isn't determined by what something is, it is determined by its cause.

It's cause is rational. Being helpful to my people increases our chances to survival and brings us one step closer to prosperity.

Quote:Whose regard?

You have said:

Quote:Unlike yours, my regard is earned, not given freely.

I mean your parents, family, your own people.

Quote:And that is why you are depraved. Someone else's achievements, someone else's property is morally yours only if you earn it. Inheritance is just another form of taking something that doesn't belong to you.

"Morally"? What does this supposed to mean? It is mine. Rightfully mine. If my ancestors would not want anything to belong to the next generations, they would have razed it to the ground, or spent it wildly so that nothing remained for the future generations to look back.
If you think that inheritance is morally wrong, you're a wacko. Humanity advanced due to the accumulation of wealth and knowledge.
You on the other hand disregard the past, while not thinking of the future either, for you shun inheritance.
If all mankind were as you, we would not have survived another century.

Quote:Clearly, you do not understand the difference between a master and a teacher. I guess that's because your teacher is your master. What he has asked for in return for his guidance is slavish devotion and blind obedience and, like a dog, you have given it to him. A teacher, on the other hand, would not lay any claim on your life or your achievements in exchange for guidance. Its people like you who end up destroying themselves because you have placed your life at other's disposal.

There is no difference in our world between the master and the teacher. Your teacher is your master. Once you've learned what you need to, you become a master, and teach others.

What he asks for his teachings is nothing, really. Most are now resting underground, having fulfilled their life's purposes. I bear the utmost respect for them, and follow their guidelines. If I did not follow their teachings, I'd not be on this path, I'd be on another. I can only do as much as to improve their teachings, if I can.

I dislike people in general yet for some reason I want our species to thrive.

(May 17, 2012 at 7:05 am)Mosrhun Wrote: I dislike people in general yet for some reason I want our species to thrive.

Do you dislike people, or do the people dislike you?
Which one?

(May 17, 2012 at 7:08 am)kılıç_mehmet Wrote:

(May 17, 2012 at 7:05 am)Mosrhun Wrote: I dislike people in general yet for some reason I want our species to thrive.

Do you dislike people, or do the people dislike you?
Which one?

Without sounding vain, I seem to have the ability to persuade almost anyone into liking me. I don't know how it happens, it just does. I will pretend to enjoy the company of most, but wouldn't even care if they ceased to exist. As I've said before, I have somewhat sociopathic tendencies in that respect. I honestly couldn't say that I would even cry if my mother died. It's not that I don't love her, it's just I don't really feel emotion too well.