(May 25, 2012 at 5:17 pm)Aiza Wrote: Um, the very person that post was in reply to said that people committed atrocities simply because of "belief in God". And that is really silly.

Can you help me out with a post number or something? Anyone?

(May 25, 2012 at 6:52 pm)RaphielDrake Wrote:

(May 25, 2012 at 6:41 pm)Jesus Pipes Wrote: No not at all. If anyone says you will burn in hell for having different beliefs is just brainwashed by religious dogma. Jesus himself never preached that. Whether he was God's son or just a man, he only preached tolerance and acceptance of others, even those that did not share his beliefs.

Agreed. I appreciate the fact you realise that, its a rarity in most Christians.
However, Jesus said that the old testament holds true, did he not?
What of the Bible? Supposedly the word of God. It has quite alot to say on the subject.
You disagree with it on this subject?

One of the major arguments atheists have about the bible is that all these stories were written on so many different scrolls by so many different authors. This is true and why theists should not take the entire bible and say their faith is based of of the whole book.

Jesus preached that you could have a relationship with God without following the ways of the OT. Whether you agree with it or not, Jesus preached mercy, not a eye for an eye. Christianity is not the same as what Jesus preached.

I can't say if Jesus was more than a man or not, but he did preach tolerance and acceptance. Even if he was just a man you could learn a lot from him on how to treat others.

(May 25, 2012 at 7:02 pm)Jesus Pipes Wrote:

(May 25, 2012 at 6:52 pm)RaphielDrake Wrote: Agreed. I appreciate the fact you realise that, its a rarity in most Christians.
However, Jesus said that the old testament holds true, did he not?
What of the Bible? Supposedly the word of God. It has quite alot to say on the subject.
You disagree with it on this subject?

One of the major arguments atheists have about the bible is that all these stories were written on so many different scrolls by so many different authors. This is true and why theists should not take the entire bible and say their faith is based of of the whole book.

Jesus preached that you could have a relationship with God without following the ways of the OT. Whether you agree with it or not, Jesus preached mercy, not a eye for an eye. Christianity is not the same as what Jesus preached.

I can't say if Jesus was more than a man or not, but he did preach tolerance and acceptance. Even if he was just a man you could learn a lot from him on how to treat others.

Again, sound reasoning in part.
You say we shouldn't take the whole Bible seriously. How do you decide which parts are to be taken seriously? I find his rather relevant as all evidence of Jesus' existence lies entirely in the Bible.
In this case I use the term evidence rather loosely in your favor by the way.

Quote:What of the Bible? Supposedly the word of God. It has quite alot to say on the subject.

Do you mean the Old Testament? Gehena is not hell. Judaism has no no eternal suffering. As you might ask your pastor about your faith,perhaps go to the trouble about asking a rabbi about Jewish beliefs.

The Christian notion of an eternal hell was invented by Saul of Tarsus,who effectively invented the religion called 'Christianity'*

Quote:Even if he was just a man you could learn a lot from him on how to treat others.

I guess,if one was brought up on another planet.

Jesus was an observant Jew.He founded a JEWISH sect. Nothing in the moral code attributed to Jesus is antithetical to Judaism .

The core values of so-called Judeo-Christian morality was/is also taught by the Hindus, the Greek philosophers, the Buddha and even by the ancient Egyptians.


EG The Hindus,and later the Buddha (a Hindu prince) taught the principle of 'ahimsa'. IE the absence of desire (and hence action) to harm other living things. Mohandas Gandhi used that principle in his Satyagraha movement. Martin Luther King adopted the idea,calling it 'passive resistance'.
'


*references'

'Paul; The Mind of An Apostle, A N Wilson.

'Lost Christianities' Bart Ehrman

(May 25, 2012 at 8:16 pm)padraic Wrote: Do you mean the Old Testament? Gehena is not hell. Judaism has no no eternal suffering. As you might ask your pastor about your faith,perhaps go to the trouble about asking a rabbi about Jewish beliefs.

The Christian notion of an eternal hell was invented by Saul of Tarsus,who effectively invented the religion called 'Christianity'*

I may be mistaken but I believe the person I am asking is a Christian, this is the belief system I am putting under a microscope with my line of questioning and although that is related I kind of wanted to establish his line of reasoning.
Your reply is appreciated though as I was not aware of this and it is a very interesting and useful fact.
Thank you.

Quote:I may be mistaken but I believe the person I am asking is a Christian

Oh sorry mate, I was addressing Jesus Pipes. I thought was addressing his post. Have mentioned I'm old and easily confused?.


Tangent;did you know that 'pipe' is French slang for fellatio?

(May 25, 2012 at 8:38 pm)padraic Wrote:

Quote:I may be mistaken but I believe the person I am asking is a Christian

Oh sorry mate, I was addressing Jesus Pipes. I thought was addressing his post. Have mentioned I'm old and easily confused?.


Tangent;did you know that 'pipe' is French slang for fellatio?

No, I didn't.
Did you know your now solely responsible for me asking every female member on the forum if they'd like a pipe and promptly getting slapped and/or laid?

Have you been to jesus pipes' website? I'm not at all clear what beliefs are being espoused other than that smoking a pipe (of anything) will somehow help you meditate on Jesus' teachings. A distinction is made between what the bible says and what Jesus says.

Jesus pipes,

If Jesus' message was that man could know God without the Old Testament, I assume you would say man can know Jesus/God/whatever without the New Testament too? Afterall, Jesus had no part in putting it together and knew nothing of it. If he thought it important to leave specific instructions behind don't you think he'd have put a scribe to work? If you agree that neither the NT nor the OT is needed to know God, would you also agree that Jesus too is superfluous? When he is quoted as saying "I am the way", do you think he meant his personhood/essence or did he mean the way exemplified by his life?

What do you think Jesus would have said is important? That you win his favor or that you follow his example? Do you think Jesus would have thought his personal history was so important?

I'd be curious to hear you say more if there is anymore to say.

(May 25, 2012 at 5:46 pm)Jesus Pipes Wrote: A lot of atheists just like to bash theists. Probably most of the users on here joined to say how much religion sucks. I'm not saying this is the reason everybody hates on atheists, but I'm sure it doesn't help. Everyone would hate an atheist even if they were nothing but tolerant and accepting. It's just not good for politics to like an atheist. It's hard not to return the hate cast upon you.

There are quite a few atheists who do not approve of the confrontational antics of some of the more hardcore Atheists because they rightfully believe it paints a negative image of their views. Instead of showing atheists (well non-spiritual atheists in this instance) as good people who do not need a belief system to tell them how to live a righteous life , it paints a picture of them being as backward and vile as the Evangelicals.

(May 25, 2012 at 11:00 pm)Polaris Wrote: There are quite a few atheists who do not approve of the confrontational antics of some of the more hardcore Atheists because they rightfully believe it paints a negative image of their views. Instead of showing atheists (well non-spiritual atheists in this instance) as good people who do not need a belief system to tell them how to live a righteous life , it paints a picture of them being as backward and vile as the Evangelicals.

for me, it's not only that it paints a negative view, it's that i'm new to being around other atheists at all, so i'm learning what terms mean and how people communicate their lack of beliefs as well as how theists came to believe what they believe. it's a learning deal for me. once the general convo degrades to solely name-calling, there will be nothing more of value to me and i'll be gone. never was much of a groupie anyway, i do my own thing.