How big was the army of ancient Israel?

1.3 million soldiers, counting Israel and Judah.

Quote:2 Sam 24:9 And Joab gave up the sum of the number of the people unto the king: and there were in Israel eight hundred thousand valiant men that drew the sword; and the men of Judah were five hundred thousand men.

Now Rome, by contrast, at its height, had some 35 legions (about 5,500 soldiers each). This means Rome would have an army of 200,000 soldiers.

This means the ancient Israeli imperial army was 6 times the size of Rome at her height.

Now why can't I find any evidence of this grand Davidic empire in my history books? Must be all those atheist historians trying to keep us from the truth.

P.S. Minimalist, can you correct my figures on Rome if I'm wrong? Thanks.

That certainly explains how Isreal was able to conquer an empire far beyond the eastern Med.

Oh, wait.

The military problems of the 3d century doubtlessly caused a massive increase in Roman military spending which led to the impoverishment of the empire and its subsequent decline....sounds much like the US today, doesn't it. The numbers you mention are certainly plausible then.

However, during the Pax Romana in which much of the xtian bullshit story occurs, the Roman military establishment was much smaller. After the Civil War ended after Actium, Augustus reduced the army from somewhere over 50 to around 28 legions. The flash points for problems were in the East, Germania and Spain. The Syrian army comprised 4 legions but there were reinforcements available on short notice from Asia Minor and Egypt if needed. IIRC, when Augustus died there were 25 legions ( 3 had been lost with Quinctillius Varus in Germany.). At this time there were roughly 5,000 men per legion which meant a total force of heavy infantry of 125,000 men, but scattered all over the empire. In addition though, Augustus had an auxillary force ( archers, slingers, cavalry, skirmishers, etc. ) to complement the legions and they were equivalent in numbers. The Roman navy was a minimal force at this time as it had no real enemy.
So 125,000 heavy infantry, 125,000 light troops and cavalry and maybe 10,000 in the Navy gives a total of 260,000 for the whole empire.

Now of course your point is that the numbers which are recorded in the bible are flat-out fucking absurd and would only be accepted by idiot jesus freaks who have long since abandoned any pretense of rational thought for fables. Does that pretty much cover it?

(June 6, 2012 at 2:05 pm)Minimalist Wrote: Now of course your point is that the numbers which are recorded in the bible are flat-out fucking absurd and would only be accepted by idiot jesus freaks who have long since abandoned any pretense of rational thought for fables. Does that pretty much cover it?

Yes. Thanks for the correction. So David's army was only 5 times the size of the combined legions at Rome's height. Even still, this is another great miracle and we can explain away the "absurdity" of the numbers with a simple "GodDidIt". Ta da!

Moreover archaeology shows that "David" and his massive army came from a capitol "city" which was little more than a miserable little shithole of a village.

There is one raison d'etre for Jerusalem existing where it is. An intermittent spring called the Gihon which supplies the only water source. Using it, Hezekiah built a city of perhaps 10,000 people at its absolute peak in the 7th century BC.

It was not until Herod the Great using Roman aqueduct technology increased the water supply to allow the city population to grow to perhaps 30,000 in the first centuries BC and AD that the city hit its all-time high.
When the fucking bible talks about 70,000 of this and 130,000 of that it is nothing but Holy Horseshit. They would have all died of thirst.

Quote:Now of course your point is that the numbers which are recorded in the bible are flat-out fucking absurd

Really? Are you saying Methuselah,Noah et al DIDN'T live for centuries? I am disappoint.

(June 6, 2012 at 5:20 pm)Minimalist Wrote: When the fucking bible talks about 70,000 of this and 130,000 of that it is nothing but Holy Horseshit. They would have all died of thirst.

Ah but you're forgetting about all the rocks around the area that they could get the water they needed.

Quote:Exodus 17:6 Behold, I will stand before thee there upon the rock in Horeb; and thou shalt smite the rock, and there shall come water out of it, that the people may drink. And Moses did so in the sight of the elders of Israel.

I would suggest that the absurdity of high numbers was done for political reasons. If we were to assume as some scholars do that these texts were written during the time of the Greek occupation then the intent would be to make David and Solomon look mighter than Judea's conquerors. There is an assumption that Jerusalem was the origianl city of David. Of that I am not too sure.

Political and propaganda reasons. The Greeks pulled the same shit when Herodotus wrote that the Persian army invading Greece numbered 2.1 million men.

Caesar wrote that a quarter of a million Gauls rallied to break the siege of Alesia.

Both numbers are fucking ridiculous and serve the same purpose. To make the victors look even more heroic than
they were.

(June 7, 2012 at 12:18 am)Minimalist Wrote: Political and propaganda reasons. The Greeks pulled the same shit when Herodotus wrote that the Persian army invading Greece numbered 2.1 million men.

Caesar wrote that a quarter of a million Gauls rallied to break the siege of Alesia.

Both numbers are fucking ridiculous and serve the same purpose. To make the victors look even more heroic than
they were.

Like the 500 witnesses to the flying risen Jesus?