(June 8, 2012 at 4:23 pm)gringoperry Wrote:

(June 8, 2012 at 4:13 pm)Faith No More Wrote: My point is that compared to them, we may seem like what viruses appear to us. If that were true, I doubt they would bat an eyelash, or whatever aliens have, while proceeding to make sure we don't contaminate the universe.

Dammit, that's what Dr Neil was saying. Why the fuck would they care about us, anymore than we care about ebola? It only takes them to be 1% more intelligent than us for them to not give a shit. Why won't anyone listen to Dr Neil? The man is a genius, ffs!

Um, we're significantly more than 1% more intelligent than our nearest relatives, and many people think they should be given special protection because they are like us in many ways. Our feelings about ebola are far different from our feelings about chimpanzees, and arguably proportional to relative intelligence and consciousness. I don't think it's so easy to predict alien attitudes. If being a genius was highly correlated with being right, geniuses would have a reputation for agreeing with each other.

Okay, we are 100 times more intelligent than Chimpanzee and within only the last 100 years or so we suddenly decided it was somewhat unseemly to shoot them for sport. This temporary condition of our section of human population (Africans still kill Chimps for meat) is appropriate for projection onto something that might have 6 legs and 8 eyes and secrete acid as phormone for what reason?

We can certainly increase our knowledge and we should. But when we say "all things are possible" or "anything is possible" that is the very root of the dogmatism of the omni god concept.

We can only be agnostic about the future. But we cannot let our own desires cloud the issue. And there are some things that are so unlikely to cling to them is to stagnate and let credulity take over to fuel that credulity.

We have no way of estimating the likelihood of other sophonts in the universe. Too many variables are unknown and we currently only have one planet as an example. That said, I would be surprised if the only life in the galaxy was on our planet and the only sophonts in the unverse are us. However, I would not be surprised if the only sophonts in our galaxy are us. Even if life is common, spontaneously sophont life may be extremely rare.

Were we to acquire the means to travel at 10% of the speed of light, we would be able to colonize the entire galaxy in less time than it took us to transition from Homo habilis to Homo sapiens. I suspect we'll eventually be able to do better than that, I'm being deliberately conservative. If we do manage to start to spread, there will eventually be thousands, if not millions of sophont species either descended from us or made by us (or more likely, by our machines) in our galaxy. This would seem to put an upper boundary on how 'far ahead of us' a civilization capable of interstellar travel could be. It may well be that WE are the elder progenitor race of the Milky Way galaxy. Assuming we're not too short-sighted and lackadaisacal to make the effort to colonize away from our planet.

That said, I hope we have lots of friendly or indifferent neighbors. I just don't expect it.

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(June 8, 2012 at 4:59 pm)Chuck Wrote: Okay, we are 100 times more intelligent than Chimpanzee and within only the last 100 years or so we suddenly decided it was somewhat unseemly to shoot them for sport. This temporary condition of our section of human population (Africans still kill Chimps for meat) is appropriate for projection onto something that might have 6 legs and 8 eyes and secrete acid as phormone for what reason?

What is the reason for projecting the opposite onto them?

(June 8, 2012 at 4:52 pm)Mister Agenda Wrote:

(June 8, 2012 at 4:23 pm)gringoperry Wrote: Dammit, that's what Dr Neil was saying. Why the fuck would they care about us, anymore than we care about ebola? It only takes them to be 1% more intelligent than us for them to not give a shit. Why won't anyone listen to Dr Neil? The man is a genius, ffs!

Um, we're significantly more than 1% more intelligent than our nearest relatives, and many people think they should be given special protection because they are like us in many ways. Our feelings about ebola are far different from our feelings about chimpanzees, and arguably proportional to relative intelligence and consciousness. I don't think it's so easy to predict alien attitudes. If being a genius was highly correlated with being right, geniuses would have a reputation for agreeing with each other.

OK, I get it, you're more insightful than Dr Neil. Pfft.

(June 8, 2012 at 4:59 pm)Chuck Wrote: Okay, we are 100 times more intelligent than Chimpanzee and within only the last 100 years or so we suddenly decided it was somewhat unseemly to shoot them for sport. This temporary condition of our section of human population (Africans still kill Chimps for meat) is appropriate for projection onto something that might have 6 legs and 8 eyes and secrete acid as phormone for what reason?

We have been far more intelligent than chimps for 500 thousand years or or more. Where do you get that claim? I agree that we act like chimps, even now, but we have had a much more evolved brain for a much longer time.

There was a time when people laughed at air travel. But if everything is possible in the future just because we get attached to a whim, then any god is possible If everything is possible just because we think it then we wouldn't need ATMs and Newton's Alchemy would allow us to make gold out of wood.

(June 8, 2012 at 5:06 pm)Mister Agenda Wrote: . Even if life is common, spontaneously sophont life may be extremely rare.

That may be, but your notion of rapid colonization of Milkyway also suggest the few sophants that are out there could have spread everywhere quickly and are thus now ubiquitious.

Which is why I find the lack of evidence for them disturbing. That is, it is some reason to suspect that we might be the first sophont species in the Milky Way with a reasonable prospect of spreading beyond our own star system.

(June 8, 2012 at 5:06 pm)Mister Agenda Wrote: What is the reason for projecting the opposite onto them?

I am not projecting the opposit. I am trying not to project at all. I am trying to start from a clean slate.

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(June 8, 2012 at 5:13 pm)Mister Agenda Wrote: Which is why I find the lack of evidence for them disturbing. That is, it is some reason to suspect that we might be the first sophont species in the Milky Way with a reasonable prospect of spreading beyond our own star system.

I don't. We really have no idea what evidence we should expect from a sophant 5 million years, or 5 billion years, more advanced than we are. For all we know we could have been providing amusment like crickets in a box all along.

(June 8, 2012 at 5:08 pm)gringoperry Wrote:

(June 8, 2012 at 4:52 pm)Mister Agenda Wrote: Um, we're significantly more than 1% more intelligent than our nearest relatives, and many people think they should be given special protection because they are like us in many ways. Our feelings about ebola are far different from our feelings about chimpanzees, and arguably proportional to relative intelligence and consciousness. I don't think it's so easy to predict alien attitudes. If being a genius was highly correlated with being right, geniuses would have a reputation for agreeing with each other.

OK, I get it, you're more insightful than Dr Neil. Pfft.

Possibly. I am aware that there is more than a 1% difference in intelligence between a bright person and an average one, while the difference in intelligence between a chimp or gorilla and us is more like 100%; while Dr. Neil (as reported by you) seems to be unaware of how ridiculous it sounds to claim we are only 1% smarter than chimps. On what basis have you concluded that Dr. Neil is a genius? It doesn't take a genius to get a PhD, although being relatively bright is a great help.