(June 11, 2012 at 3:39 pm)Brian37 Wrote: To quote Princes Lea from the original Star Wars "NERF HERDER!"

Aren't you a little short to be an atheist?

THAT WAS A GOOD ONE!

"Aren't you a little short to be an atheist"

"I'm Luke Reasonwaker, I'm here to rescue you"

Not to derail this thread, but someone on another board started a thread of lines from that series that sound suggestive, like the following.

"You came in that thing, you're braver than I thought"

Anyway, that was a good one.

(June 11, 2012 at 5:54 pm)Brian37 Wrote: THAT WAS A GOOD ONE!

"Aren't you a little short to be an atheist"

"I'm Luke Reasonwalker, I'm here to rescue you"

"Let's head towards that logical argument"

"That's no argument..it's a bible quote!"

(June 11, 2012 at 6:22 pm)liam Wrote:

(June 11, 2012 at 5:54 pm)Brian37 Wrote: THAT WAS A GOOD ONE!

"Aren't you a little short to be an atheist"

"I'm Luke Reasonwalker, I'm here to rescue you"

"Let's head towards that logical argument"

"That's no argument..it's a bible quote!"

"Great argument kid, that was one in a million, now lets blow this circular reasoning and go home"

(June 10, 2012 at 6:51 pm)Brian37 Wrote: THERE IS NO MIND, there are just outcomes of motion which people call "mind". Just like speed is an outcome of the motion of a car.

Outcomes of motion? Are you fucking kidding me? How is this different from claims that you are nothing more than an energy frequency operating in a different spectrum?

THERE IS NO MIND. (your capitalization, not mine). How foolish. To type the words THERE IS NO MIND requires a mind, unless you belive that the act of typing those words, in all caps, was purely accidental.

(June 11, 2012 at 10:07 pm)cato123 Wrote:

(June 10, 2012 at 6:51 pm)Brian37 Wrote: THERE IS NO MIND, there are just outcomes of motion which people call "mind". Just like speed is an outcome of the motion of a car.

Outcomes of motion? Are you fucking kidding me? How is this different from claims that you are nothing more than an energy frequency operating in a different spectrum?

THERE IS NO MIND. (your capitalization, not mine). How foolish. To type the words THERE IS NO MIND requires a mind, unless you belive that the act of typing those words, in all caps, was purely accidental.

"Mind" is a word and a bullshit woo word that implies there is something separate from the brain and makes magic out of about mundane organ functions.

You also have to have a brain to make up a word, like snarfwidget, or googgoledgop, but the ability to make shit up is hardly impressive.

Saying "There is no mind" only requires a brain to think with, just like saying there is no god doesn't require a god to believe in.

Now others in this thread have made the argument and no one has refuted it. If one's brains get scrambled by a bullet, or if one's head gets decapitated the the structure is no longer in tact to manifest the display of outward expression you falsely call "mind". There is only the brain and the brain in motion, there is no such thing as a "mind".

I am sorry if that is not sexy enough.

What is so scary about merely being a product of evolution? The brain is an amazing organ and there certainly are lots of interesting historical figures and interesting people in the world today, but I am not going to pretend that "me" is something special outside my own material brain.

I am a product of evolution, genetics, chemical makeup, information input and my brain in motion, but that is it.

Bloody fucking hell.

Of 19 definitions of "mind" on dictionary.com, only 3 that I count have any association with woo.

While I am likewise of a mind (see what I did there?) that the mind is probably wholly dependent on the brain, "brain" and "mind" are in no way synonymous. One is a physical mass of grey matter, the other is a process.

The woo is in the usage, not in the word, for fucks sake.

Quote:mind
   [mahynd] Show IPA
noun
1.
(in a human or other conscious being) the element, part, substance, or process that reasons, thinks, feels, wills, perceives, judges, etc.: the processes of the human mind.
2.
Psychology . the totality of conscious and unconscious mental processes and activities.
3.
intellect or understanding, as distinguished from the faculties of feeling and willing; intelligence.
4.
a particular instance of the intellect or intelligence, as in a person.
5.
a person considered with reference to intellectual power: the greatest minds of the twentieth century.
6.
intellectual power or ability.
7.
reason, sanity, or sound mental condition: to lose one's mind.
8.
a way of thinking and feeling; disposition; temper: a liberal mind.
9.
a state of awareness or remembrance: The poem puts me in mind of experiences both new and forgotten.
10.
opinion, view, or sentiments: to change one's mind.
11.
inclination or desire: to be of a mind to listen.
12.
purpose, intention, or will: Let me know your mind in this matter before Tuesday.
13.
psychic or spiritual being, as opposed to matter.
14.
a conscious or intelligent agency or being: an awareness of a mind ordering the universe.
15.
remembrance or recollection; memory: Former days were called to mind.
16.
attention; thoughts: He can't keep his mind on his studies.
17.
Chiefly South Midland and Southern U.S. notice; attention: When he's like that, just pay him no mind.
18.
Roman Catholic Church . a commemoration of a person's death, especially by a Requiem Mass. Compare month's mind, year's mind.
19.
( initial capital letter ) Also called Divine Mind. Christian Science . God; the incorporeal source of life, substance, and intelligence. Compare mortal mind.

Quote:brain
[breyn]   Example Sentences Origin
brain
   [breyn] Show IPA
noun
1.
Anatomy, Zoology . the part of the central nervous system enclosed in the cranium of humans and other vertebrates, consisting of a soft, convoluted mass of gray and white matter and serving to control and coordinate the mental and physical actions.
2.
Zoology . (in many invertebrates) a part of the nervous system more or less corresponding to the brain of vertebrates.
3.
Sometimes, brains. ( used with a plural verb ) understanding; intellectual power; intelligence.
4.
the brain as the center of thought, understanding, etc.; mind; intellect.
5.
brains, Slang . a member of a group who is regarded as its intellectual leader or planner: The junior partner is the brains of the firm.
6.
Informal . a very intelligent or brilliant person.
7.
Informal .
a.
the controlling or guiding mechanism in a computer, robot, pacemaker, etc.
b.
the part of a computer system for coordination or guidance, as of a missile.

(June 11, 2012 at 10:27 pm)Brian37 Wrote: "Mind" is a word and a bullshit woo word that implies there is something separate from the brain and makes magic out of about mundane organ functions.

You also have to have a brain to make up a word, like snarfwidget, or googgoledgop, but the ability to make shit up is hardly impressive.

Saying "There is no mind" only requires a brain to think with, just like saying there is no god doesn't require a god to believe in.

Now others in this thread have made the argument and no one has refuted it. If one's brains get scrambled by a bullet, or if one's head gets decapitated the the structure is no longer in tact to manifest the display of outward expression you falsely call "mind". There is only the brain and the brain in motion, there is no such thing as a "mind".

I am sorry if that is not sexy enough.

What is so scary about merely being a product of evolution? The brain is an amazing organ and there certainly are lots of interesting historical figures and interesting people in the world today, but I am not going to pretend that "me" is something special outside my own material brain.

I am a product of evolution, genetics, chemical makeup, information input and my brain in motion, but that is it.

You are fuck all nuts. I went out of my way to explain to the author of the OP how emergence theory didn't work, pointing out that a proponent of strong emergent theory still holds a monist position. No reasonable person, saving you of course, thinks that the mind exists outside the brain as a mere woo word.

(June 11, 2012 at 10:37 pm)Cthulhu Dreaming Wrote: Bloody fucking hell.

Of 19 definitions of "mind" on dictionary.com, only 3 that I count have any association with woo.

While I am likewise of a mind (see what I did there?) that the mind is probably wholly dependent on the brain, "brain" and "mind" are in no way synonymous. One is a physical mass of grey matter, the other is a process.

The woo is in the usage, not in the word, for fucks sake.

Quote:mind
   [mahynd] Show IPA
noun
1.
(in a human or other conscious being) the element, part, substance, or process that reasons, thinks, feels, wills, perceives, judges, etc.: the processes of the human mind.
2.
Psychology . the totality of conscious and unconscious mental processes and activities.
3.
intellect or understanding, as distinguished from the faculties of feeling and willing; intelligence.
4.
a particular instance of the intellect or intelligence, as in a person.
5.
a person considered with reference to intellectual power: the greatest minds of the twentieth century.
6.
intellectual power or ability.
7.
reason, sanity, or sound mental condition: to lose one's mind.
8.
a way of thinking and feeling; disposition; temper: a liberal mind.
9.
a state of awareness or remembrance: The poem puts me in mind of experiences both new and forgotten.
10.
opinion, view, or sentiments: to change one's mind.
11.
inclination or desire: to be of a mind to listen.
12.
purpose, intention, or will: Let me know your mind in this matter before Tuesday.
13.
psychic or spiritual being, as opposed to matter.
14.
a conscious or intelligent agency or being: an awareness of a mind ordering the universe.
15.
remembrance or recollection; memory: Former days were called to mind.
16.
attention; thoughts: He can't keep his mind on his studies.
17.
Chiefly South Midland and Southern U.S. notice; attention: When he's like that, just pay him no mind.
18.
Roman Catholic Church . a commemoration of a person's death, especially by a Requiem Mass. Compare month's mind, year's mind.
19.
( initial capital letter ) Also called Divine Mind. Christian Science . God; the incorporeal source of life, substance, and intelligence. Compare mortal mind.

Quote:brain
[breyn]   Example Sentences Origin
brain
   [breyn] Show IPA
noun
1.
Anatomy, Zoology . the part of the central nervous system enclosed in the cranium of humans and other vertebrates, consisting of a soft, convoluted mass of gray and white matter and serving to control and coordinate the mental and physical actions.
2.
Zoology . (in many invertebrates) a part of the nervous system more or less corresponding to the brain of vertebrates.
3.
Sometimes, brains. ( used with a plural verb ) understanding; intellectual power; intelligence.
4.
the brain as the center of thought, understanding, etc.; mind; intellect.
5.
brains, Slang . a member of a group who is regarded as its intellectual leader or planner: The junior partner is the brains of the firm.
6.
Informal . a very intelligent or brilliant person.
7.
Informal .
a.
the controlling or guiding mechanism in a computer, robot, pacemaker, etc.
b.
the part of a computer system for coordination or guidance, as of a missile.

Nowhere have I denied or ignored the "definitions" above. I am saying that they are baggage far too often that gets used to insert woo by people who want to make the mundane material into magic.

I am offering you a different way of viewing the brain without adding a needless word to it.

When you tell a theist the first time they hear the term "agnostic atheist" they do what you are doing here. You get dogmatic about past traditions instead of thinking about a new way of viewing it.

If you want to use the word "mind" I cant and wont stop you, I just see that as a needless word.

One definition defines "mind" as the control of the brain. What you call mind, like I said, what "controls me" AS nothing more than genetics, brain chemistry and life input.

What I call "me" or "my mind" is input and evolution making a display that can be observed. Unique in that there is only one me, but most certainly not special in evolution or in any way beyond a material process.

Even in the scientific definition they call it what I am calling it, A MATERIAL PART OF THE BRAIN, so skip the word mind, it is still in that definition part of the brain , just call it the controling part of the brain,

QUOTE; Anatomy, Zoology . the part of the central nervous system enclosed in the cranium of humans and other vertebrates, consisting of a soft, convoluted mass of gray and white matter and serving to control and coordinate the mental and physical actions.

PART OF NOT SEPARATE FROM, SO THE "MIND" is literally the brain. I simply skip the mind part and say that "we" are all the parts of the brain in motion.

There's no philosophy, just ideas. There's no mind, just brains. Don't pat yourself on the back for thinking these things. You are stone cold fuck all nuts.

In fact, give me your girlfriend's/wife's address. I'll take her to a show, then dinner, then fuck her in the ass. No mind or philosophy getting in my way, just an idea my brain had. You can't get bent out of shape about it since the act has no evolutionary consequence. Just a passing idea that came from my brain. No worries.