My other problem with stuff like paying respects to the military is that more often than not these days they are not "defending my rights" to anything. In the World Wars, there were actual threats to the people of the countries fighting; heck, the Germans bombed the crap out of the English. I don't mind paying respects to the soldiers who fought and died trying to stop the Nazis. However, Afghanistan and Iraq were not going to attack us, they never had WMDs, they were never a threat. The soldiers in those wars fought and died for reasons other than "defending my rights".
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Am I the only one annoyed by this picture?
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 ![[Image: waterlooBattle_1428520c.jpg]](https://images.weserv.nl/?url=i.telegraph.co.uk%2Fmultimedia%2Farchive%2F01428%2FwaterlooBattle_1428520c.jpg) 'Wait I don't think we can fire again, it would not be a morally justifiable action.'  (July 29, 2012 at 10:55 pm)Rhythm Wrote: It's an odd one, for sure. I personally don't know too many vets (disabled or otherwise) who would give a shit whether or not Kevin decided to stand for the pledge of allegiance. I sure as fuck wouldn't. From my perspective, forcing kids to recite the pledge diminishes the value of the oath. You want to recite the oath (and mean it)? Knock yourself out. Want to pass? Fine with me. Forcing anyone to do it renders it wholly meaningless (which it is). I can't take it seriously at all. (On the other hand, the oath I took on entry into the military, that I took very seriously.) This reminds me - my employer's former CEO used to have a full color guard and have the all the employees stand and recite the pledge at major company functions. No, I'm not joking. (Incidentally, my employer is based in Houston. Go figure.) Pretty much everyone in my office (Portland, OR) thought it was a stupid exercise. Does anyone else outside of the US do shit this stupid? (July 30, 2012 at 6:22 am)Cthulhu Dreaming Wrote: Does anyone else outside of the US do shit this stupid? Yes, get drunk with some Russians, and you can honour each other under the table. Every group, nation, society, has its own silly peccadilloes. I don't think it is about that group really thinking its important, but just as a test to make sure you, the individual will sacrifice your individuality, to affiliate yourself to the group view. 
You'd think that if the soldier ended up in a wheelchair to defend that kid's right not to say the pledge, he wouldn't want to suddenly rob that kid of that right, essentially rendering his sacrifice pointless.
Even if the open windows of science at first make us shiver after the cozy indoor warmth of traditional humanizing myths, in the end the fresh air brings vigor, and the great spaces have a splendor of their own - Bertrand Russell
I hold this cartoon to be self-evidently stupid. It's a silly little thing probably designed to make patriotic people snicker while rubbing their opponents the wrong way. It's playing into their hands if someone allows this to anger them (I acknowledge the OP said 'annoyed', not 'angered'). A lot of these people only know how to argue with hyperbole and emotional appeals. Just calmly point out their errors (and in this case, the irony) and move on.
RE: Am I the only one annoyed by this picture?
July 30, 2012 at 10:04 am
(This post was last modified: July 30, 2012 at 10:11 am by The Grand Nudger.)
(July 30, 2012 at 6:22 am)Cthulhu Dreaming Wrote:(July 29, 2012 at 10:55 pm)Rhythm Wrote: It's an odd one, for sure. I personally don't know too many vets (disabled or otherwise) who would give a shit whether or not Kevin decided to stand for the pledge of allegiance. Sounds like your old boss liked to play Dress Up. (July 30, 2012 at 4:58 am)jonb Wrote: Don't feel sorry for the kid with the powers of the state being used to control him, he's enjoying every moment of it. What better way to gauge for oneself the normally imperceptible tendrils of The State. The only time you even notice the little bastard at play is when you are at play- at odds- with it. One can get to thinking that it is a completely impersonal machine if one never decides to try on the opposite for a moment. It then becomes very clear that The State has a pulse, breath, and body just as anyone else, and that each of those individuals who might challenge your refusal to toe the line are indistinguishable from its eyes, ears, and fingers. Hell, it's almost gratifying to know that The State would take notice of you, even if only to put the thumb on you, turn the screw. Eve if all it allocates to the issue are a few mouth-breathers and hyperbole. Beats being ignored.
I am the Infantry. I am my country’s strength in war, her deterrent in peace. I am the heart of the fight… wherever, whenever. I carry America’s faith and honor against her enemies. I am the Queen of Battle. I am what my country expects me to be, the best trained Soldier in the world. In the race for victory, I am swift, determined, and courageous, armed with a fierce will to win. Never will I fail my country’s trust. Always I fight on…through the foe, to the objective, to triumph overall. If necessary, I will fight to my death. By my steadfast courage, I have won more than 200 years of freedom. I yield not to weakness, to hunger, to cowardice, to fatigue, to superior odds, For I am mentally tough, physically strong, and morally straight. I forsake not, my country, my mission, my comrades, my sacred duty. I am relentless. I am always there, now and forever. I AM THE INFANTRY! FOLLOW ME!
(July 30, 2012 at 10:04 am)Rhythm Wrote: Hell, it's almost gratifying to know that The State would take notice of you, even if only to put the thumb on you, turn the screw. Eve if all it allocates to the issue are a few mouth-breathers and hyperbole. Beats being ignored. Yes is one of the best sports I know, dancing round the edge of the state, irritating the fat old beast.  (July 30, 2012 at 5:09 am)Tiberius Wrote: My other problem with stuff like paying respects to the military is that more often than not these days they are not "defending my rights" to anything. In the World Wars, there were actual threats to the people of the countries fighting; heck, the Germans bombed the crap out of the English. I don't mind paying respects to the soldiers who fought and died trying to stop the Nazis. However, Afghanistan and Iraq were not going to attack us, they never had WMDs, they were never a threat. The soldiers in those wars fought and died for reasons other than "defending my rights". The Bush administration...now aided and abetted by Obama have proven Abraham Lincoln correct. Quote:"From whence shall we expect the approach of danger? Shall some trans-Atlantic military giant step the earth and crush us at a blow? Never. All the armies of Europe and Asia...could not by force take a drink from the Ohio River or make a track on the Blue Ridge in the trial of a thousand years. No, if destruction be our lot we must ourselves be its author and finisher. As a nation of free men we will live forever or die by suicide." I keep searching for the last time our "freedom" was threatened by foreign powers - and come back to the War of 1812. Neither Germany nor Japan had the ability to cross the oceans in force.  RE: Am I the only one annoyed by this picture?
July 30, 2012 at 12:15 pm
(This post was last modified: July 30, 2012 at 12:17 pm by Erinome.)
My son doesn't stand, nor say the pledge at school. We had to talk to my daughter about it, because she's starting kindergarten this year. We said it for her out loud, and she looked at us blankly as we, like drones recited it for her. Then we got to the "under god" part, and her eyes got a little buggy. I told her she could participate if she wants to, but she doesn't have to. She said she'll think about it. I wanted to go ahead and tell her about it, that way she won't hear it, and shout out, "GOD AIN'T REAL!".... like she did in Sunday school class at her dad's church.
Oh! And just like a good little critical thinker, she asked me, "which god are we talking about here?". 
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