In all seriousness, there's great minds on both sides.

Indeed. I'm just trying to think who the other ones might be...

that one went over my head

Aoplogies. It was an extremely oblique and obscure mini-reference to a story attributed to Sir Arthur Eddington with regard to Einstein's Theory of General Relativity:

Quote:Because the theory was so complex and abstruse (even today it is popularly considered the pinnacle of scientific thinking; in the early years it was even more so), it was rumored that only three people in the world understood it. There was an illuminating, though probably apocryphal, anecdote about this. As related by Ludwik Silberstein, during one of Eddington's lectures he asked "Professor Eddington, you must be one of three persons in the world who understands general relativity." Eddington paused, unable to answer. Silberstein continued "Don't be modest, Eddington!" Finally, Eddington replied "On the contrary, I'm trying to think who the third person is."

haha, nice

(August 31, 2012 at 11:52 am)idunno Wrote: spockrates, are you an open theist?

I'm open to anything--theistic, or non-theistic.



How about you, idonno?

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(August 31, 2012 at 2:03 pm)downbeatplumb Wrote: Reasons to quit christianity.

You get to stop feeling like you have to defend stupid ideas like "god".

You will start to see that godditit is a retardant to rational thinking and start to truly ask the right questions.

You also have the fun of toying with the minds of christians on forums like this.

Oh, can I play!

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(August 31, 2012 at 2:37 pm)Mister Agenda Wrote:

(August 29, 2012 at 3:04 pm)spockrates Wrote: I asked why others believe God does not exist. The answer several gave was that if God existed, we would not be free, for God's omniscience would be the death of our freewill. I'm simply asking why this belief is true and expressing why I still have my doubts. I think the doubts are justified, but do you still disagree? Do you think that to experience is not to know and there is no thing that cannot be known apart from experiencing it?

The free-will dilemma entertains, for the sake of argument, the consequences of believing certain things about God. It doesn't address theism per se at all, only the God of theodicy. No matter what answer is arrived at, it will not support the existence or non-existence of God, it will just have you twiddling with definitions. Have you considered deism (he says, hopefully, as encouragement toward Catholicism has failed)?

Good to hear from you again, my ex-Oneness Penecostal friend! Yes, I hear what you are saying; but for me, personally, proving omniscience and freewill cannot possibly coexist would be sufficient reason to quit Christianity. The reasons I have previously expressed, but please let me know if I should repeat them.

Quote:

(August 29, 2012 at 8:34 am)spockrates Wrote: Yes, I agree any concept of this God (if God exists) must be logical. One reason why I question the faith of Rythm, Mister and Cato.

Please specify what faith of mine you think you're questioning?

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(August 29, 2012 at 5:24 pm)spockrates Wrote: Based on what Rhythm, Cato and Mister Agenda tell me. It seems you disagree with them, too--though for different reasons. I'm thinking God cannot be experienced. You appear to be thinking God cannot lack ignorance.

I would love to hear what you've gotten from what I've told you. Because I'm completely sure what you took away wasn't what i actually said, based on experience.

I was saying you, Cato and Rhythm each had faith in the idea that omniscience means God knows all. Tell me, please: After all that has been said, do you still believe this?

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(August 31, 2012 at 8:57 am)Rhythm Wrote: Smoke and mirrors Spock. Your refusal to address the issue in favor of diversion appears to be intentional. If there's something I've said that you're having a hard time getting a handle on perhaps you should re-read the thread..since I've explained this, in all likelihood, more than a dozen times.

Do you really still believe I'm trying to trick you into believing omniscience means to know less than all? You are smarter than that, my friend! There is no parlor trick here. If I actually had tried to tricked you, I'm sure you would have revealed by now how the trick was done.

The truth is, I've used no magician's secret and no slight of hand, but simply asked simple questions. All you have to do is answer truthfully what reason tells you: Is the fictional God in whom Christans believe really experienced?

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What about you, Cato? You don't still have faith in the idea that Christians really believe God knows all. Do you? The truth is, I myself actually thought Christians believed this before this discussion thread, but now I know better.

I think it's safe to say that any Christian who says God knows all doesn't know what she believes! After we set her straight by sharing what we now know, she will certainly be able to say: "I once was blind, but now I see."

Come on! Is there anyone here who truly believes the Christian God (if he exists) is experienced?

If no Christian believes God has experienced all, and so knows every experience, then how can any Christian logically conclude that God knows all?

You just love the attention huh spock? Hey, be my guest.

(September 1, 2012 at 12:37 pm)LastPoet Wrote: You just love the attention huh spock? Hey, be my guest.

Have you ever counted the amount of questions he asks in each post?

It's mind blowing isn't it?

Don't you think it's amazing that he takes such a great interest in what everyone else has to say?

(September 1, 2012 at 12:49 pm)Napoléon Wrote: Have you ever counted the amount of questions he asks in each post?

It's mind blowing isn't it?

Don't you think it's amazing that he takes such a great interest in what everyone else has to say?

Yes it is, isn't it?

Have you wondered why?

What do you think Napo?



On a side note, noone can accuse him of making claims, because in formal logic, a question has no true/false value as it is an interrogation not a proposition, right?