Hello, i would like to present evidence that the United States were founded by Christian principles and though they did not want religion to rule this nation, they wanted it's leaders to be guided by Christian morals and it's people free to express their religion whatever it may be. before i start, i would like to point out that i am not picking apart evidence to fit my argument. i very well know "In God we trust" did not become our official motto until 1956, and before that we had no official motto. i know that saying did not appear on our bills until 1957 and on our coins in 1864. my intention is to look at the real evidence and allow rational conclusion to be drawn from it.

first i will look at the constitution, though admittedly not much evidence is there. the first amendment states:

Quote: Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the Government for a redress of grievances.

when it says they shall make no law respecting the establishment of religion, they are saying they shall make no law endorsing a religious establishment. doing this would appear that the government i preferring one religion over another. this undermines the concept of freedom of religion. when it says or prohibit the free exercise thereof, it says government cannot prohibit anyone from religious expression. this does mean the government can not partake in or be involved in religious activities, just not to promote one religion and minimize others. the constitution does allow government to partake in religious action. there are examples in history.

Thomas Jefferson showed support for religion several times. I'll present a quote from Religion and the Founding of the American Republic, Library of Congress.

Quote: It is no exaggeration to say that on Sundays in Washington during the administrations of Thomas Jefferson (1801-1809) and of James Madison (1809-1817) the state became a church. Within a year of his inauguration, Jefferson began attending church services in the House of Representatives. Madison followed Jefferson's example, although unlike Jefferson, who rode on horseback to church in the Capitol, Madison came in a coach and four. Worship services in the House--a practice that continued until after the Civil War--were acceptable to Jefferson because they were nondiscriminatory and voluntary. Preachers of every Protestant denomination appeared. (Catholic priests began officiating in 1826.)

so church services were regularly held in the capitol building and the House of Representatives and were attended by both presidents and founding fathers Thomas Jefferson and James Madison. such a thing today would be unheard of due to our current view of separation of church and state.
it should also be noted that Thomas Jefferson funded mission trips to native Americans spreading the word of Christianity. there is even a Washington Post article that makes the claim.
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-srv/spe...erson.html
the reason the capitol building was because as George Washington's Secretary of State, he approved a plan where the capitol building would hold regular church services when it was completed.
and he often closed presidential documents with “In the year of our Lord Christ” followed by the date.
http://www.google.com/imgres?num=10&hl=e...,s:0,i:116
the saying was also in the US constitution.
http://www.google.com/imgres?um=1&hl=en&...1,s:0,i:74

next i would like to point out where the phrase "In God we Trust" came from. contrary to what you may believe, they didn't pull it out of mid air and put it on our money. I've had people say that it was put there because of the fear of communism during the cold war. even though it was on our coins in 1864. but the first literature to say that was our Star-Spangled Banner. many only know the first verse of this song but don't even know there's more to it. there are four verses of the song written by Francis Scott Key. the fourth verse has in it "And this be our motto: 'In God is our trust.'" we adopted the song as our national anthem and it remains so to this day. in fact, i can think of no nationally recognized patriotic song that does not have God in it. that fact alone suggests Christianity was very important to us as a nation in these times. if anyone has an example of a patriotic song that does not have God in it, please bring it forward. I'm interested if there is one.

i think that's enough evidence. please don't confuse my intentions however. i have no intention of calling us a theocracy. i only wish to point out the Christian roots of our nation and how it has changed from it.

Basically, you said "The founding fathers were christians and this proves they wanted the nation to be guided by christian morals." Where's the reasoning there?

Anyway, even if the founders did want the nation to be guided by christian morals; so, what? I hope you're not insinuating that the leaders of a nation should adhere to the demands of the founders of the nation for no reason other than because they're the founders. It doesn't matter who's saying it; it matters only what's being said.

Also, why does the phrase "In god we trust" have to refer to the christian god?

(October 27, 2012 at 2:25 am)chi pan Wrote: Hello, i would like to present evidence that the United States were founded by Christian principles and though they did not want religion to rule this nation, they wanted it's leaders to be guided by Christian morals and it's people free to express their religion whatever it may be.

Oh not this bullshit again.

That's not Christianity, that's secularism.

Thank you, chippy...for reminding me that you are a horse's ass.

The words "god", "jesus", christ, and "christian" do not appear in the constitution. So much for your xtian horseshit.

This is what James Madison thought of your xtian stupidity.

Quote:Experience witnesseth that eccelsiastical establishments, instead of maintaining the purity and efficacy of Religion, have had a contrary operation. During almost fifteen centuries has the legal establishment of Christianity been on trial. What have been its fruits? More or less in all places, pride and indolence in the Clergy, ignorance and servility in the laity, in both, superstition, bigotry and persecution.

I must say....Madison has you pegged, chippy.

(October 27, 2012 at 2:25 am)chi pan Wrote: Hello, i would like to present evidence that the United States were founded by Christian principles and though they did not want religion to rule this nation, they wanted it's leaders to be guided by Christian morals and it's people free to express their religion whatever it may be.

I dought that, but what if? Honestly. This is one major thing I dont understand about you americans.
Your nation was founded as a democracy, and yeah it is and was a importent step in the ongoing process of making progress for mankind. But it was only a step.
Some of your founding fathers thought slavery was alright and maybe eaven had slaves. Some of them actualy were convinced racists such as Benjamin Franklin.
At first your constitution only gave men who owned property the right to vote.

Do you see my problem here?
Why should it be importent what people back then thought was best for the world when today we have completly different problems.
Todays world is a more progressive and tolerant world, which has learned lessons out of mistakes in history.
There is no "golden" unchangeing standerd to run a nation. One has to learn out of mistakes and disregard what doesnt work.

Germany was founded as a christian nation, as the "Holy Roman Empire of Germany" to be precice. A nation which was seen as the protector of christianity and Rome and therefor brutaly inforced Christianity in eastern european Lithuenia, thereby slaugthering thousands of Poles, and taking a lead rule in almoust every crusade throughout the medieval era.

Now gues why we dont live up to these "principles" which founded our nation anymore.

Repetitive chippy....we already have a thread on this don't we?

Sounds to me that some of the founding fathers were religious, but that does not make the US a Christian. How do you know that they did not establish the country with their own morals in mind, which could have been influenced by religion? This wall of text was not worth reading.

The founding fathers were basically deists, not christians. Most wanted nothing to do with christianity. Remember, the Inquisition was fresh on their minds and they were all too familiar with the' power of the church'.

America (well going back to the early Colonial days and still affecting public opinion and policy) was founded on Christian ideals. Disagree? Just go to Western Europe and see how much more they value individuality compared to the United States....even so-called liberal states such as California are quite puritan when you compare them to those nations.

Most, if not all, european countries became official sovereign countries by a Papal bull.
If the pope gave his OK, you could have your country. If not, no way José!

They all began christian... worse, catholic!
And now, look at them... mostly secular and it's mostly the elderly that attend religious ceremonies.