(October 27, 2012 at 11:59 am)Polaris Wrote: America (well going back to the early Colonial days and still affecting public opinion and policy) was founded on Christian ideals. Disagree? Just go to Western Europe and see how much more they value individuality compared to the United States....even so-called liberal states such as California are quite puritan when you compare them to those nations.

????
"value individuality"?????

you can shove that right back into the part of your anatomy out of which you pulled it!

Do you eaven know a bit about European history?!

explain your weird remark!

Compare the number of homosexual politicians voted into office in the United States with those elected in Europe.

(October 27, 2012 at 4:13 am)KichigaiNeko Wrote: Repetitive chippy....we already have a thread on this don't we?

Yep.
http://atheistforums.org/thread-15209.ht...=Fuck+this
Although it isn't in quite the same vein as this one. It is talking more about Christianity population being on the decline as evidence that it isn't a Christian nation.

(October 27, 2012 at 3:00 pm)Polaris Wrote: Compare the number of homosexual politicians voted into office in the United States with those elected in Europe.

I have to apologise, somehow I read your statement wrong and read that we in Europe "didn`t" value individuality, because of our "non-christian" culture.

(October 27, 2012 at 3:17 pm)The_Germans_are_coming Wrote:

(October 27, 2012 at 3:00 pm)Polaris Wrote: Compare the number of homosexual politicians voted into office in the United States with those elected in Europe.

I have to apologise, somehow I read your statement wrong and read that we in Europe "didn`t" value individuality, because of our "non-christian" culture.

I'm not sure if it is so much America's culture, per se, but that Christianity is the dominant religion, and it frowns upon homosexuality. Maybe it just seems like America has a Christian culture because many people in America are Christians and like to think that being Christian is being American.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Treaty_of_T...Article_11

wikipedia Wrote:The treaty was a routine diplomatic agreement but has attracted later attention because the English version included a clause about religion in the United States.
As the Government of the United States of America is not, in any sense, founded on the Christian religion,—as it has in itself no character of enmity against the laws, religion, or tranquility, of Mussulmen [Muslims],—and as the said States never entered into any war or act of hostility against any Mahometan [Muslim] nation, it is declared by the parties that no pretext arising from religious opinions shall ever produce an interruption of the harmony existing between the two countries.

Even if the founders intended this nation to be guided by Christian principles, it would only prove that the founders were capable of having very bad ideas even while they were being innovative and progressive in other areas.

(October 27, 2012 at 4:10 pm)Ryantology Wrote: Even if the founders intended this nation to be guided by Christian principles, it would only prove that the founders were capable of having very bad ideas even while they were being innovative and progressive in other areas.

They approved slavery and other injustices we are saddled with even to this day.

I don't give much credit to the Treaty of Triploi because of how quickly we went to war with them.....to me, it was just a BS treaty no different than the Japanese pretending to seek negotiations prior to Pearl Harbor.

(October 27, 2012 at 4:26 pm)Polaris Wrote: They approved slavery and other injustices we are saddled with even to this day.

I don't give much credit to the Treaty of Triploi because of how quickly we went to war with them.....to me, it was just a BS treaty no different than the Japanese pretending to seek negotiations prior to Pearl Harbor.

Maybe so, but the point is that we no longer approve of slavery. We are moving away from biblical [im]morals more and more all the time.

It's interesting to me that those that claim this nation to be founded on Christian principles always seem to ignore the fact that there was an indigenous population living here that had to be wiped out first.

You want to claim this nation was founded on Christian principles? Don't forget to justify the genocide of the Native Americans.

Whuddyagnoe. Shit flies.


"I have found Christian dogma unintelligible. Early in life I absented myself from Christian assemblies."
Benjamin Franklin


(Quoted by Victor Stenger, referenced at )


I have a .PPS file of the presentation given at a local critical thinking club, ostensibly refuting the idea we are a Christian nation. Download it . (~3 MB)