Quote:if that were the case, they could refer to is as AD

Was it common to write dates out in that format in the 1780s?

(October 27, 2012 at 11:48 pm)Ryantology Wrote:

Quote:if that were the case, they could refer to is as AD

Was it common to write dates out in that format in the 1780s?

no, but you missed the point.

(October 27, 2012 at 11:53 pm)chi pan Wrote:

(October 27, 2012 at 11:48 pm)Ryantology Wrote: Was it common to write dates out in that format in the 1780s?

no, but you missed the point.

Anno Domini

wikipedia Wrote:Anno Domini (AD or A.D.) and Before Christ (BC or B.C.) are designations used to label or number years used with the Julian and Gregorian calendars.

wikipedia Wrote:On the continent of Europe, Anno Domini was introduced as the era of choice of the Carolingian Renaissance by Alcuin. Its endorsement by Emperor Charlemagne and his successors popularizing the usage of the epoch and spreading it throughout the Carolingian Empire ultimately lies at the core of the system's prevalence. According to the Catholic Encyclopedia, popes continued to date documents according to regnal years for some time, but usage of AD gradually became more common in Roman Catholic countries from the 11th to the 14th centuries. In 1422, Portugal became the last Western European country to switch to the system begun by Dionysius. Eastern Orthodox countries only began to adopt AD instead of the Byzantine calendar in 1700 when Russia did so, with others adopting it in the 19th and 20th centuries.

Just as I thought: almost everybody was already using it.

america was not founded as a christian nation

"But the greatest of all reformers of the depraved religion of his own country, was Jesus of Nazareth. Abstracting what is really his from the rubbish in which it is buried, easily distinguished by its lustre from the dross of his biographers, and as separable from that as the diamond from the dunghill, we have the outlines of a system of the most sublime morality which has ever fallen from the lips of man. The establishment of the innocent and genuine character of this benevolent morality, and the rescuing it from the imputation of imposture, which has resulted from artificial systems, invented by ultra-Christian sects (The immaculate conception of Jesus, his deification, the creation of the world by him, his miraculous powers, his resurrection and visible ascension, his corporeal presence in the Eucharist, the Trinity; original sin, atonement, regeneration, election, orders of the Hierarchy, etc.) is a most desirable object."
..........To W. Short, Oct. 31, 1819

"The Christian god is a three headed monster, cruel, vengeful, and capricious. If one wishes to know more of this raging, three headed beast-like god, one only needs to look at the caliber of people who say they serve him. They are always of two classes: fools and hypocrites."

"I do not find in orthodox Christianity one redeeming feature."

"Christianity...(has become) the most perverted system that ever shone on man. ...Rogueries, absurdities and untruths were perpetrated upon the teachings of Jesus by a large band of dupes and importers led by Paul, the first great corrupter of the teaching of Jesus."

I contemplate with sovereign reverence that act of the whole American people which declared that their legislature should "make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof," thus building a wall of separation between church and state.
..........Letter to the Danbury Baptist Association, January 1, 1802

"Where the preamble declares, that coercion is a departure from the plan of the holy author of our religion, an amendment was proposed, by inserting the word "Jesus Christ," so that it should read, 'a departure from the plan of Jesus Christ, the holy author of our religion;' the insertion was rejected by a great majority, in proof that they meant to comprehend, within the mantle of its protection, the Jew and the Gentile, the Christian and Mahometan, the Hindoo, and Infidel of every denomination."

"When we see religion split into so many thousands of sects, and I may say Christianity itself divided into it's thousands also, who are disputing, anathematizing, and where the laws permit, burning and torturing one another for abstractions which no one of them understand, and which are indeed beyond the comprehension of the human mind, into which of the chambers of this Bedlam would a man wish to thrust himself. The sum of all religion as expressed by it's best preacher, 'fear god and love thy neighbor,' contains
no mystery, needs no explanation - but this wont do. It gives no scope to make dupes; priests could not live by it."
..........Letter to George Logan, November 12, 1816

-Quotes from Thomas Jefferson
http://zenhell.com/GetEnlightened/FoundingFathers/

(October 27, 2012 at 11:53 pm)chi pan Wrote:

(October 27, 2012 at 11:48 pm)Ryantology Wrote: Was it common to write dates out in that format in the 1780s?

no, but you missed the point.

Not really.

Just because I say 'god dammit' does not imply I believe in God. It's a common saying.

(October 28, 2012 at 1:33 am)Ryantology Wrote: Not really.

Just because I say 'god dammit' does not imply I believe in God. It's a common saying.

i don't think the two sayings were quite the same. regardless there is still every single patriotic song to account for, actions of presidents supporting christian actions. especially Thomas Jefferson.

(October 28, 2012 at 12:26 am)cratehorus Wrote:

---

america was not founded as a christian nation

"But the greatest of all reformers of the depraved religion of his own country, was Jesus of Nazareth. Abstracting what is really his from the rubbish in which it is buried, easily distinguished by its lustre from the dross of his biographers, and as separable from that as the diamond from the dunghill, we have the outlines of a system of the most sublime morality which has ever fallen from the lips of man. The establishment of the innocent and genuine character of this benevolent morality, and the rescuing it from the imputation of imposture, which has resulted from artificial systems, invented by ultra-Christian sects (The immaculate conception of Jesus, his deification, the creation of the world by him, his miraculous powers, his resurrection and visible ascension, his corporeal presence in the Eucharist, the Trinity; original sin, atonement, regeneration, election, orders of the Hierarchy, etc.) is a most desirable object."
..........To W. Short, Oct. 31, 1819

"The Christian god is a three headed monster, cruel, vengeful, and capricious. If one wishes to know more of this raging, three headed beast-like god, one only needs to look at the caliber of people who say they serve him. They are always of two classes: fools and hypocrites."

"I do not find in orthodox Christianity one redeeming feature."

"Christianity...(has become) the most perverted system that ever shone on man. ...Rogueries, absurdities and untruths were perpetrated upon the teachings of Jesus by a large band of dupes and importers led by Paul, the first great corrupter of the teaching of Jesus."

I contemplate with sovereign reverence that act of the whole American people which declared that their legislature should "make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof," thus building a wall of separation between church and state.
..........Letter to the Danbury Baptist Association, January 1, 1802

"Where the preamble declares, that coercion is a departure from the plan of the holy author of our religion, an amendment was proposed, by inserting the word "Jesus Christ," so that it should read, 'a departure from the plan of Jesus Christ, the holy author of our religion;' the insertion was rejected by a great majority, in proof that they meant to comprehend, within the mantle of its protection, the Jew and the Gentile, the Christian and Mahometan, the Hindoo, and Infidel of every denomination."

"When we see religion split into so many thousands of sects, and I may say Christianity itself divided into it's thousands also, who are disputing, anathematizing, and where the laws permit, burning and torturing one another for abstractions which no one of them understand, and which are indeed beyond the comprehension of the human mind, into which of the chambers of this Bedlam would a man wish to thrust himself. The sum of all religion as expressed by it's best preacher, 'fear god and love thy neighbor,' contains
no mystery, needs no explanation - but this wont do. It gives no scope to make dupes; priests could not live by it."
..........Letter to George Logan, November 12, 1816

-Quotes from Thomas Jefferson
http://zenhell.com/GetEnlightened/FoundingFathers/

---

just because there were people including Thomas Paine who spoke ill of Christianity does not mean the nation was not founded on christian values. here are some quotes from the founding fathers

George Washington Wrote:While we are zealously performing the duties of good citizens and soldiers, we certainly ought not to be inattentive to the higher duties of religion. To the distinguished character of Patriot, it should be our highest glory to add the more distinguished character of Christian

--The Writings of Washington, pp. 342-343.

John Adams Wrote:Suppose a nation in some distant Region should take the Bible for their only law Book, and every member should regulate his conduct by the precepts there exhibited! Every member would be obliged in conscience, to temperance, frugality, and industry; to justice, kindness, and charity towards his fellow men; and to piety, love, and reverence toward Almighty God ... What a Eutopia, what a Paradise would this region be.

--Diary and Autobiography of John Adams, Vol. III, p. 9.

the letter Thomas Jefferson wrote to the Danbury Baptist Association was not meant to say that government should not partake in religion. this would have been contradictory to what he had already done in agreeing to hold church services in the capitol building. it was meant to assure them government cannot punish them for their religious practice. this was the concern they raised to him and he sent this letter in response.

yes they held church services that is true, but that is not the church as we think of it today, it included all denominations, including catholics, no doubt muslims and jews and everyother faith would've have been allowed to pray there. That is not a church that's using 1 of 17 or so, existing buildings as a religous town hall, jefferson even said he would never have attended this church if it wasn't non-discriminatory

are you implying they left out the 1 million chances to add something religous of anykind, to this constitution, because they were stupid or because they were liars?

Meh. Go ahead. Make it a Christian nation. And that will make me an oppressed minority.


And fully morally justified in bombing your churches and killing your leaders.


I'll start with you. What did you say your name was again? Chuck uppity.

(October 28, 2012 at 3:08 am)cratehorus Wrote: yes they held church services that is true, but that is not the church as we think of it today, it included all denominations, including catholics, no doubt muslims and jews and everyother faith would've have been allowed to pray there. That is not a church that's using 1 of 17 or so, existing buildings as a religous town hall, jefferson even said he would never have attended this church if it wasn't non-discriminatory

are you implying they left out the 1 million chances to add something religous of anykind, to this constitution, because they were stupid or because they were liars?

yes, there were several denominations. there were no muslim or jewish services though. you greatly exaggerate, this is the reality of it.

Quote: Preachers of every Protestant denomination appeared. (Catholic priests began officiating in 1826.) As early as January 1806 a female evangelist, Dorothy Ripley, delivered a camp meeting-style exhortation in the House to Jefferson, Vice President Aaron Burr, and a "crowded audience." Throughout his administration Jefferson permitted church services in executive branch buildings. The Gospel was also preached in the Supreme Court chambers.

http://www.loc.gov/exhibits/religion/rel06-2.html

(October 27, 2012 at 11:43 pm)chi pan Wrote:

Rev. Rye Wrote:More of a matter of linguistics than anything else. This was in the time when just saying 1787 wasn't self explanatory.

if that were the case, they could refer to is as AD, as that did exist at that time, or at very least in the year of christ's birth. saying in the year of our lord implies devotion. otherwise "our lord" would not be there.

Since AD is the initialism for "Anno Domini" and means "In the year of our lord", somehow I think that your position on this would be exactly the same if they had used it. Please feel free to tell me I'm wrong.