(December 2, 2012 at 9:38 pm)The_Germans_are_coming Wrote: We united our curencies - which was very overhasty since greece`s economy and financial status was a catastrophy before they eaven entered the EU.

By that logic the USA's Federal economy is presently a catastrophe?

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(December 2, 2012 at 10:51 pm)Justtristo Wrote: Well let me start off by stating that the ABS estimated that the annual salary of all workers in Australia to be AUD 55,000, while in the
United States it slightly less than USD 40,000. Even accounting for an overvalued Australian dollar, Australian workers are getting paid slightly more than their American counterparts.

That doesn't mean anything. The cost of living in the USA is much lower. Pack of cigarettes cost $5 there, compared with $15 here (we have about the same percentage of smokers). Cost of petrol in Australia about $1.40-1.50/Litre. Cost of petrol in USA about $0.85. Interest rate in Australia 3.25%, interest rate in the USA 0.25%. Average property price in Australia ~$520,000, average property price in USA ~$185,000. Australia = higher taxes, USA = lower taxes. etc.

Quote:Secondly, in really struggling I meant people having to go to food-banks or soup kitchens in order to get enough to eat.

Some of them do need help to put food on the table, or to pay their bills. I have a friend on disability that gets $150 a week disability (he is completely unable to work), he eats once a day.

(December 2, 2012 at 11:46 pm)Daniel Wrote: That doesn't mean anything. The cost of living in the USA is much lower. Pack of cigarettes cost $5 there, compared with $15 here (we have about the same percentage of smokers). Cost of petrol in Australia about $1.40-1.50/Litre. Cost of petrol in USA about $0.85. Interest rate in Australia 3.25%, interest rate in the USA 0.25%. Average property price in Australia ~$520,000, average property price in USA ~$185,000. Australia = higher taxes, USA = lower taxes. etc.

Except that taxes are not the reason for the cost of goods or anything else. You would need to have a tax rate 2.8x higher than ours in the US across all spectrums. Ours, on average, for the middle class, is around 30% or so...though it's hard to nail down the tax rate here. It's exceedingly complicated [and oftentimes seems like its implicit design was to keep rich people from paying a fucking thing...except then you realize that that only really started happening with the policy changes Reagan, the puppet of the corporate world who all Republicans venerate and who anyone with half a mid-brain loathes, implemented], but the general average is around 25% to 30%. What YOU are saying is that you guys are being taxed around 70% to 84%, if I extrapolate the differences in price to taxes [not very reliable...but then, it's pretty much the argument you're making, so if it sounds flawed, well, not my fault].

Something doesn't sound exactly correct there. Can YOU tell me what it is?

(December 2, 2012 at 11:46 pm)Daniel Wrote: Some of them do need help to put food on the table, or to pay their bills. I have a friend on disability that gets $150 a week disability (he is completely unable to work), he eats once a day.

I am not denigrating people in this country who truly struggle to pay their bills, along with keeping a roof over their heads and getting enough to eat. However in Australia from what I have heard, few people with full time jobs (even minimum wage ones) are struggling in that sense. In America you have millions of low paid workers who do.

Also I remember I was just mentioning people who were working, as opposed whose whole income comes from government payments.

AUD 150 a week in disability pension payments? The minimum rate of the unemployment benefit is at least AUD 250 a week. While the aged and disability pensions are AUD 386.30 a week. The lowest minimum wage in the USA is USD 7.15 an hour, which for a 40 hour week comes out to USD 286 per week.

Yeah actually I have a hard time believing him on that.

(December 2, 2012 at 11:46 pm)Daniel Wrote: That doesn't mean anything. The cost of living in the USA is much lower. Pack of cigarettes cost $5 there, compared with $15 here (we have about the same percentage of smokers). Cost of petrol in Australia about $1.40-1.50/Litre. Cost of petrol in USA about $0.85. Interest rate in Australia 3.25%, interest rate in the USA 0.25%. Average property price in Australia ~$520,000, average property price in USA ~$185,000. Australia = higher taxes, USA = lower taxes. etc.

Incorrect.
Cigarettes cost about $5.50 a pack in Virginia, a state which grows a lot of tobacco, so therefore keeps the prices low. In Maryland, they're about $7.50 a pack. In NYC, they're around $12 a pack. It all depends on the "sin tax" associated with cigarettes in the state/local municipality you live in.
Cost of gas here: I just filled my tank for $3.49 a gallon, and that was with my discount card saving me an additional $0.20/gal (original price $3.69/gallon). The conversion between liters and gallons puts the US rate around $1 a liter, slightly cheaper than in Australia.
We are considering refinancing our mortgage because the interest rates have dipped below 3%, I want to say it's around 2.98% for a 15 year loan, substantially higher than the 0.25% rate you are citing, from where, incidentally? If you want to talk credit card rates, they tend to be around 15-18%, though some are considerably higher.
It's not as inexpensive as you think it is here.

(December 3, 2012 at 9:02 am)festive1 Wrote: Cigarettes cost about $5.50 a pack in Virginia, a state which grows a lot of tobacco, so therefore keeps the prices low. In Maryland, they're about $7.50 a pack.

We used to grow our own too. But the government decided it's better to import it and send the profit overseas.

Quote:I just filled my tank for $3.49 a gallon, and that was with my discount card saving me an additional $0.20/gal (original price $3.69/gallon). The conversion between liters and gallons puts the US rate around $1 a liter, slightly cheaper than in Australia.

Slightly? 40% is still a huge amount.

Quote:We are considering refinancing our mortgage because the interest rates have dipped below 3%, I want to say it's around 2.98% for a 15 year loan, substantially higher than the 0.25% rate you are citing, from where, incidentally? If you want to talk credit card rates, they tend to be around 15-18%, though some are considerably higher.
It's not as inexpensive as you think it is here.

My entire point was that America is cheaper. Your cash rate is 0.25%. Your average interest rate may be around 3%, ours is around 6% (compounded that's well more than double).

Still, it's not as cheap as you were trying to make it out to be. Coupled with our lower wages...

Having lived in Europe, Asia, and N America, I found it much harder to get by in the US than elsewhere, on roughly equal salaries. There are lots of little costs that enter into the equation--things that don't pop up on analyses of nations' CPI and PPP. Also, in the US you definitely get the sense that, if you hit rock bottom, it's hard, hard fall indeed. I live in Europe now, and I would say I have a much higher standard of living, but people define these things in different ways, I suppose.

On welfare, I don't really mind it--it seems preferable to open class warfare. I think I would respond to the OP's question by asking, "Why do so many assume that full employment is a possibility?" I have accepted the fact that some people will never work. Even with my high taxes to support public health and the welfare state here, I live very well. Given what I've seen of public housing and life on welfare / benefits, I think most people who can work, can find work, and land work that pays well enough, will choose that over public support immediately.

Z

(December 2, 2012 at 11:46 pm)Daniel Wrote: By that logic the USA's Federal economy is presently a catastrophe?

nope. Because the USA is also a political union, it has afederal goverment a united parlament and united institutions such as the army.
Aswell as it has nationwide political parties and other.

Within the EU every nation has kept it`s sovereignty, and has only engaged in a united currency and a basic set of human rights.

For the US to be like the EU every single state within the US would have to be it`s own independent nation.

Centrelink?

http://www.humanservices.gov.au/customer...ment-rates

They give students 130 a week just for being over 22 (even living at home, this is before rent assistance n stuff) plus 1000 each semester (making it 170 a week equivilent). I seriously doubt 150 a week for disability, (unless of course you have enough other assets that they start giving you less but not so much that they give you nothing).

http://www.humanservices.gov.au/customer...ment-rates

disability pension rates, looks like it's 250 a week + (when not living at home) (before other stuff like the supplement and presumably rent assistance).