(December 3, 2012 at 10:13 am)A Theist Wrote: ...how far should our government go with cultural distortions to redefine marriage in this country...since homosexual marriage between consenting adults is recognized in some states, why not take it farther to also include polygamous marriages between consenting adults where a man or a woman can legally marry multiple spouses?

I don't see why not, as long as they are consenting adults. Personally, sharing a life with one person is hard enough, but if someone wants to have more, I see no direct consequence it would somehow be 'bad'. Hell, that would give rise to a new trend in taxation.

(December 3, 2012 at 10:24 am)LastPoet Wrote:

(December 3, 2012 at 10:13 am)A Theist Wrote: ...how far should our government go with cultural distortions to redefine marriage in this country...since homosexual marriage between consenting adults is recognized in some states, why not take it farther to also include polygamous marriages between consenting adults where a man or a woman can legally marry multiple spouses?

I don't see why not, as long as they are consenting adults. Personally, sharing a life with one person is hard enough, but if someone wants to have more, I see no direct consequence it would somehow be 'bad'. Hell, that would give rise to a new trend in taxation.

why stop there....would you also agree to redefining marriage to include legally recognizing incestual marriages between consenting adults, brother / sister, uncle / niece, aunt / nephew, parent / child.....

(December 3, 2012 at 10:13 am)A Theist Wrote:

(December 1, 2012 at 9:20 pm)TaraJo Wrote: On a more serious note, part of me wants southern, conservative states to start secession simply because the rest of the nation would become more liberal as a result of not having far right wack-jobs pushing federal legislation into crazy town. However, since I live in Texas, I know my state would be the first to go and I'd need to get far away from here, fast. I can't imagine Texas being GLBT friendly if not for the fact that the pesky constitution is getting in their way. I mean, consensual homosexual sex was only decriminalized here because of a supreme court ruling in 2003.

...how far should our government go with cultural distortions to redefine marriage in this country...since homosexual marriage between consenting adults is recognized in some states, why not take it farther to also include polygamous marriages between consenting adults where a man or a woman can legally marry multiple spouses?

1) Notice how the issue I brought up had little to do with same sex marriage. It had to do with the fact that two gay men or two lesbians couldn't have sex with each other without breaking the law. The reason same sex marriage wasn't a seriuos issue within the GLBT community until after 2003 was because we were busy attempting to decriminalize gay sex.

2) As far as what type of marriage the state should allow, the key term is 'educated consent.' As long as all parties entering into the marriage know what they're getting into and they're ok with it, go with it. I've known people who have been in long-term, polyamorous relationships and everybody got along just fine with it. I'm sure there might be an issue or so that woud come up in such relationships that wouldn't come up in a monogamous relationship, but that can still be worked aroud without trouble.

3) You want a less intrusive, smaller government, right? If the government is saying who can get married to who, who can sleep with who, that's not small or non-intrusive.

(December 3, 2012 at 11:06 am)TaraJo Wrote:

(December 3, 2012 at 10:13 am)A Theist Wrote: ...how far should our government go with cultural distortions to redefine marriage in this country...since homosexual marriage between consenting adults is recognized in some states, why not take it farther to also include polygamous marriages between consenting adults where a man or a woman can legally marry multiple spouses?

1) Notice how the issue I brought up had little to do with same sex marriage. It had to do with the fact that two gay men or two lesbians couldn't have sex with each other without breaking the law. The reason same sex marriage wasn't a seriuos issue within the GLBT community until after 2003 was because we were busy attempting to decriminalize gay sex.

2) As far as what type of marriage the state should allow, the key term is 'educated consent.' As long as all parties entering into the marriage know what they're getting into and they're ok with it, go with it. I've known people who have been in long-term, polyamorous relationships and everybody got along just fine with it. I'm sure there might be an issue or so that woud come up in such relationships that wouldn't come up in a monogamous relationship, but that can still be worked aroud without trouble.

3) You want a less intrusive, smaller government, right? If the government is saying who can get married to who, who can sleep with who, that's not small or non-intrusive.

I also believe our government has the responsibility to preserve the stability of our culture...which includes defending traditional marriage between a man and a woman.

(December 3, 2012 at 11:23 am)A Theist Wrote: I also believe our government has the responsibility to preserve the stability of our culture...which includes defending traditional marriage between a man and a woman.

Our "culture?" Which one? America is a melting pot of various cultures, it's not a single monolithic entity.
Traditional marriage is a joke. How does allowing a same sex couple to legally marry defile marriage? Because all it really does is allow two same sex individuals, who want to build a life together, to have the same benefits as heterosexuals (ie. end of life choices, health benefits, alimony in the event of a divorce, etc.). It's going to cause no more harm to traditional marriage than allowing inter-racial couples to marry did, and significantly less harm than 36 hour or 72 day heterosexual marriages do.

Sorry I'm just now responding but I've been under the weather fighting this cold. I'm just now functional again.

(December 1, 2012 at 9:45 am)A Theist Wrote: Why should they listen to you...You sound like a angry little propagandized leftist peon who's only repeating what he heard on MSLSD news and the class warfare rhetoric he heard from the democrat campaign.

Well, aside from the obvious fact that I'm a voter and these are the people who work for me and represent me and it is our civic duty to vote and let our representatives know our wishes, there's the recent election.

Like it or not, the public voted in favor of what you call "class warfare" (a melodramatic way of saying the rich need to pay more in taxes). All the voter suppression by the GOP and flood of money the rich spent couldn't change the results.

The vote was hardly a fluke since opinion polls show overwhelming public support for increased taxes on the top 2% of earners. So they're plenty of reason why they "should" listen.

Now WILL they listen? Probably not. And they'll continue to get hammered come election time and wonder why it's happening.

And here's the kicker for conservatives like you. Unlike with bullied gays in school, it won't get better. Crazy old white men, the GOP's base, are a dying breed. The demographics show that the GOP has hitched their wagon to a fading star. If they shift to the center, their base will primary them. If they don't, they'll still lose in the general election. They're trapped between the Devil and the deep blue sea and the tide is rising.

The only problem is they can do a lot of damage on the way out and I fear that's coming.

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(December 1, 2012 at 1:06 pm)Gambit Wrote: D-S, do you mind if I make an image of this and post it on a FB page I admin? I can give you a link back to your blog/Youtube channel.

Yes. and thanks.

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(December 1, 2012 at 6:12 pm)A Theist Wrote: Then maybe you should pack your bags and move to the Eden of Sweden where you'll be happier.

Aside from the fact that it's our civic duty as Americans to continue the American Revolution (an ongoing struggle to create a more just and egalitarian democracy) it's also our duty to the human race to keep the world's largest nuclear arsenal out of the hands of right wing religious fanatics.

(December 3, 2012 at 12:02 pm)DeistPaladin Wrote: Aside from the fact that it's our civic duty as Americans to continue the American Revolution (an ongoing struggle to create a more just and egalitarian democracy) it's also our duty to the human race to keep the world's largest nuclear arsenal out of the hands of right wing religious fanatics.

Couldn't agree with you more DP.....Iran should never be allowed to obtain a nuclear weapon.

(December 3, 2012 at 12:39 pm)A Theist Wrote: Couldn't agree with you more DP.....Iran should never be allowed to obtain a nuclear weapon.

Out of curiosity, do you also agree that the American Revolution is an ongoing struggle? The abolition of slavery, women's suffrage and ongoing civil rights issues are all milestones or battles fought along the way. Our founders could only point the way. It's up to us to complete the journey, if we can manage it in our lifetimes.

So no, I'm not leaving if my country is not all it could be.

(December 3, 2012 at 12:02 pm)DeistPaladin Wrote: Now WILL they listen? Probably not. And they'll continue to get hammered come election time and wonder why it's happening.

And here's the kicker for conservatives like you. Unlike with bullied gays in school, it won't get better. Crazy old white men, the GOP's base, are a dying breed. The demographics show that the GOP has hitched their wagon to a fading star. If they shift to the center, their base will primary them. If they don't, they'll still lose in the general election. They're trapped between the Devil and the deep blue sea and the tide is rising.

This is where the echo chamber that is Fox News is going to hurt conservatives. Pay attention to other news sources, watch BBC or pick up a news paper or watch the local news. You'll usually learn something. Hell, even people who watch The Daily Show (like myself) are pretty consistantly better informed than Fox News fans.

(December 3, 2012 at 12:51 pm)TaraJo Wrote: ...watch The Daily Show (like myself) are pretty consistantly better informed than Fox News fans.

The Daily Show is probably your best source of news and information, and that's a powerful indictment of just how pathetic our media has become.