While both sides of the gun control issue are taking advantage, (or exploiting, for a better term, to further their respective agendas), of the recent shooting tragedy to jump on their political soapboxes....why not go all out and ban alcohol as well? Alcohol related deaths kill more people in America per year than all the deaths by drugs and and guns combined.....

Quote:"Alcohol related injuries and deaths in the United States is a major problem that has seen little improvement over the last decade. In fact, alcohol related car accidents kill more people between the ages of 17 and 34 than any other cause. Alcohol is also closely associated with homicides, suicides, workplace injuries, domestic violence, assault, and complications and death resulting from alcohol related disease like cirrhosis of the liver. Understanding the potentially injurious or fatal risks that people take when they drink is essential to creating an educated public that is more cognizant of the need for self-control over alcohol.....While most adults in the country are probably aware that alcohol related car accidents are a serious problem, few are aware that the physical risks taken just by drinking are severe enough that thousands of people die from conditions related to alcoholism every year. According to the US Centers for Disease Control and Prevention, there are more than 23,000 deaths related to alcohol each year that are not traffic fatalities or homicides, and 14,406 of those are caused by alcoholic liver disease.(2) Adding these totals to just the total number of drunk driving fatalities alone and we can see that nearly 47,000 deaths occur as a result of these alcohol related causes alone."

.....
http://recoveryfirst.org/alcohol-related...e-us.html/

(Let's all join the national effort to ban forks and spoons because they contribute to obesity in America).

No one's going to ban guns. It'd be a stupid and pointless move in a country like the US. More regulation on gun ownership is good, but banning them altogether would be bad. The same is true in my opinion with most drugs and alcohol.

A Theist, why not reverse this;
Legalize marihuana as well and stop the waste of police efforts, taxes and lifes?

Because you are right, alcohol is damaging....like all drugs. Alcohol is just the worst of all.

(December 15, 2012 at 10:24 am)Tobie Wrote: No one's going to ban guns. It'd be a stupid and pointless move in a country like the US. More regulation on gun ownership is good, but banning them altogether would be bad. The same is true in my opinion with most drugs and alcohol.

This, plus, I think we need to do a better job with mental health issues. I've seen way too many of these incidents where the shooter is completely batshit crazy but got a small aresnal of guns completely legally. I'm sorry, but if you have paranoid schizophrenia or other mental health problems you have NO business being anywere near a firearm.

Interestingly enough, this is one of those areas where universal health care would be a huge benefit. As it is now, if you have a bad enough mental health issue, it usually prevents you from getting a job. Without a job, you can't get money or insurance which, in turn, prevents you from seeking treatment.

(December 15, 2012 at 11:00 am)TaraJo Wrote:

(December 15, 2012 at 10:24 am)Tobie Wrote: No one's going to ban guns. It'd be a stupid and pointless move in a country like the US. More regulation on gun ownership is good, but banning them altogether would be bad. The same is true in my opinion with most drugs and alcohol.

This, plus, I think we need to do a better job with mental health issues. I've seen way too many of these incidents where the shooter is completely batshit crazy but got a small aresnal of guns completely legally. I'm sorry, but if you have paranoid schizophrenia or other mental health problems you have NO business being anywere near a firearm.

Interestingly enough, this is one of those areas where universal health care would be a huge benefit. As it is now, if you have a bad enough mental health issue, it usually prevents you from getting a job. Without a job, you can't get money or insurance which, in turn, prevents you from seeking treatment.

...and what of alcohol? Everything you just posted can be said for alcohol too....Alcohol related deaths in America kill more people per year than all the deaths by guns and drugs combined...is your opinion the same for alcohol too?.... (the use of alcohol can also seriously impair those who have no paranoid schizophrenia and other mental health issues...but its continued use can lead to those issues)

---

(December 15, 2012 at 10:39 am)Dee Dee Ramone Wrote: A Theist, why not reverse this;
Legalize marihuana as well and stop the waste of police efforts, taxes and lifes?

Because you are right, alcohol is damaging....like all drugs. Alcohol is just the worst of all.

Legalizing marijuana would just be adding to an already seriously existing problem to drug and alcohol use....

Quote:"Marijuana remains the most widely abused illicit drug in the United States and around the world. There remains significant controversy over the effects of the drug on physical and mental health. However, marijuana is no longer considered a benign drug. It has been shown to have negative effects on both physical and psychological health and is associated with the possible development of tolerance, dependence and a withdrawal syndrome."

http://www.usc.edu/student-affairs/Healt...subs2.html

(December 15, 2012 at 11:19 am)A Theist Wrote:

(December 15, 2012 at 11:00 am)TaraJo Wrote: This, plus, I think we need to do a better job with mental health issues. I've seen way too many of these incidents where the shooter is completely batshit crazy but got a small aresnal of guns completely legally. I'm sorry, but if you have paranoid schizophrenia or other mental health problems you have NO business being anywere near a firearm.

Interestingly enough, this is one of those areas where universal health care would be a huge benefit. As it is now, if you have a bad enough mental health issue, it usually prevents you from getting a job. Without a job, you can't get money or insurance which, in turn, prevents you from seeking treatment.

...and what of alcohol? Everything you just posted can be said for alcohol too....Alcohol related deaths in America kill more people per year than all the deaths by guns and drugs combined...is your opinion the same for alcohol too?.... (the use of alcohol can also seriously impair those who have no paranoid schizophrenia and other mental health issues...but its continued use can lead to those issues)

I do think there should be laws preventing people from using guns while drunk, too. I don't want to prevent guys from drinking while on hunting trips, but I don't want to see some guy get drunk, be an angry drunk and go on a rampage because of it.

I've heard a lot of NRA people say something along the lines of "More people die from cars than guns, but nobody is taking away the cars" and I'm forced to agree. However, cars are more heavily regulated than guns. Think about it; cars have to be licenced and so do the driver and if you show that you're unable to opperate a car safely that license can be taken away. Cars have to be insured and pass inspection. There are all kinds of traffic laws that directly impact how you can use a car.

Anyway, as far as this shooting goes, I've learned some more facts about it. Turns out the guns were completely legal. One of the victims was the shooters' mother who owned those guns. Once again, the guns she probably had for protection were used against the owner.

(December 15, 2012 at 11:31 am)TaraJo Wrote:

(December 15, 2012 at 11:19 am)A Theist Wrote: ...and what of alcohol? Everything you just posted can be said for alcohol too....Alcohol related deaths in America kill more people per year than all the deaths by guns and drugs combined...is your opinion the same for alcohol too?.... (the use of alcohol can also seriously impair those who have no paranoid schizophrenia and other mental health issues...but its continued use can lead to those issues)

I do think there should be laws preventing people from using guns while drunk, too. I don't want to prevent guys from drinking while on hunting trips, but I don't want to see some guy get drunk, be an angry drunk and go on a rampage because of it.

I've heard a lot of NRA people say something along the lines of "More people die from cars than guns, but nobody is taking away the cars" and I'm forced to agree. However, cars are more heavily regulated than guns. Think about it; cars have to be licenced and so do the driver and if you show that you're unable to opperate a car safely that license can be taken away. Cars have to be insured and pass inspection. There are all kinds of traffic laws that directly impact how you can use a car.

Anyway, as far as this shooting goes, I've learned some more facts about it. Turns out the guns were completely legal. One of the victims was the shooters' mother who owned those guns. Once again, the guns she probably had for protection were used against the owner.

That wasn't my question TJ...

Quote:...and what of alcohol? Everything you just posted can be said for alcohol too....Alcohol related deaths in America kill more people per year than all the deaths by guns and drugs combined...is your opinion the same for alcohol too?.... (the use of alcohol can also seriously impair those who have no paranoid schizophrenia and other mental health issues...but its continued use can lead to those issues)

....since alcohol related deaths kill more people in America per year, (including traffic fatalities), than all the deaths by drugs and guns combined....do you think there should greater regulations controlling alcohol?

(December 15, 2012 at 11:00 am)TaraJo Wrote: This, plus, I think we need to do a better job with mental health issues. I've seen way too many of these incidents where the shooter is completely batshit crazy but got a small aresnal of guns completely legally. I'm sorry, but if you have paranoid schizophrenia or other mental health problems you have NO business being anywere near a firearm.

A firearm focused application of the "don't give a baby to Crazy" rule.

Its not about forbidding completely guns A Theist, its about better regulation. Having automatic weapons and military caliber guns it goes way over the need to defense.

What do you think of people owning guns having clean records, with compulsory regular psychological & physical examination, besides some lessons on how to use them when taking the license. This is how its done here, it won't end gun related incidents, but at least keep it to a minimum.

Another thing, your example is rather idiotic, it has nothing to do with guns. While obesity may be a health issue, being obese harms noone else but the subject. Apples & oranges Ol'chap, apples and oranges.

(December 15, 2012 at 10:13 am)A Theist Wrote: While both sides of the gun control issue are taking advantage, (or exploiting, for a better term, to further their respective agendas), of the recent shooting tragedy to jump on their political soapboxes....why not go all out and ban alcohol as well? Alcohol related deaths kill more people in America per year than all the deaths by drugs and and guns combined.....

Because the last time we did that, it led to a huge increase in crime. Remember Prohibition?