http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2YtP46drL-g


There are many parts to this documentary(not sure how many).

Who here has an interest in the Roman empire? Personally i find it rather fun to learn. I always questions things like, what if the Roman empire didnt collapse? Would i be where i am now if it didn't? Would i even be born? etc

Scientist predict that we could of been around 500 years more advanced if the Roman empire didn't fall.

The Roman Republic and Empire stifled development. It did not advance anything.

(January 11, 2013 at 10:18 pm)jonb Wrote: The Roman Republic and Empire stifled development. It did not advance anything.

What about indoor plumbing? Methods for healing wounds?Aqueducts?

Did they not help improve the technology and understanding of things ?

If this sounds rude or impolite in anyway, i am sorry. I was just asking a question

(January 11, 2013 at 10:18 pm)jonb Wrote: The Roman Republic and Empire stifled development. It did not advance anything.

I disagree because Greek science continued to develop after the conquest of the Greek world by the Romans. Because the Romans essentially adopted Greek civilization lock stock and barrel, much akind to the Russian adoption of Western European civilization from the 17th century onwards. This scientific advancement continued until the third century CE, when the empire went through fifty years of civil war, followed by an economic depression.

Then after that you had Christianity becoming a legal religion and then the official religion. These early Christians were not interesting in maintaining ancient scientific works and a lot of these works have been lost. However what do have of Classical works on science and philosophy shows that the Classical era Greeks and Romans were making scientific discoveries and aruging philosophical ideas which would not emerge again until the sixteen and seventh centuries.

For instance the Roman Stoic philosophers were arguing that slavery was morally wrong and all men were brothers. Those ideas would not emerge in Western civilization until the 18th century.

The historian Richard Carrier discusses a lot about Greco-Roman science in this various talks.

Were they invented by the Romans? I know in popular 'History' these things are said to be Roman, but that is only that it is used as a shorthand for meaning the Mediterranean and southern European area, If you delve into all these so called inventions you will find they are invented in areas before they came under Roman control.
The centralist Roman state have very little ability to pass knowledge along. Look at the Arts the sophistication of late Greek sculpture, and then the inevitable downward spiral of Roman art. Where sculptors produced nothing new just endless copies of Greek originals at best.
Think about the heights of Greek philosophy the Romans took, and the abject poverty of christian dogma they passed on.

Decline,decline,decline.

(January 11, 2013 at 10:18 pm)jonb Wrote: The Roman Republic and Empire stifled development. It did not advance anything.

I think you have confused advance anything with invent anything. That's the common claim about the roman empire. In fact the Romans advanced an incredible amount of stuff. They were also masters of using others inventions. Hell, a citizen of the Roman empire invented a form of steam engine 2000 years before anything else similar would be made again.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aeolipile

Some amazing stuff Rome, and amazing history.

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(January 11, 2013 at 10:42 pm)jonb Wrote: Were they invented by the Romans?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Roman_techn...the_Romans

Where was Hero who invented it? Egypt, the area that was most left to continue its practices without the Roman control. True the academias did not finally collapse about that time, but they had been in a long period of decline.
You might wish to watch this series by Terry Jones.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iKGVqXznpNU

The common presumption of The Roman place in history is not what it was.

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(January 11, 2013 at 10:46 pm)CapnAwesome Wrote: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Roman_techn...the_Romans

Shorthand see above.

Here's a thought:

Observation: Pain and failure can be excellent teachers if we know how to learn from them. There's a saying, when you succeed, you tend to party and when you fail, you tend to ponder. It's sometimes pain, dissatisfaction, and failure that can inspire people to make changes and ultimately succeed through those changes.

Observation: For whatever reason, Western Civilization was the first to make the leap from an agrarian economy to industrialization. While other cultures seemed content with traditional ways, Europe, or at least parts of it, seemed ready to try something new.

I would offer that it was the catastrophic failure of Western Civilization that we know as "The Dark Ages" that ultimately led to the success of industrialization and that next leap forward for humanity. As Europe was exposed to outside cultures, such as the Middle East or the Far East, it brought into focus how primitive they were by comparison. Old traditional ways of landed aristocracy were eventually cast aside in favor of urban industrial capitalism.

Had European civilization not failed, had Rome endured, would they have held on to traditional ways as other civilizations had. Would Rome have embraced the industrial revolution?

Historians worth their salt, have turned away from the term 'dark ages'.
Why: Because the decline of the Roman Empire ended, what was called the dark ages is a time of growth. New development heather people with new technologies.

(January 11, 2013 at 11:44 pm)jonb Wrote: Historians worth their salt, have turned away from the term 'dark ages'.
Why: Because the decline of the Roman Empire ended, what was called the dark ages is a time of growth. New development heather people with new technologies.

Wow, just wow. I don't know where someone would get this type of historical perspective. Look at the archeology of Roman cities. In the dark ages people were squatting in the ruins of Roman cities. Literally. The British couldn't even reproduce the armor of the Roman invaders for 1000 years. Look at the history of indoor pluming and heating in Rome compared to the rest of Europe in the dark ages.

I think you have been misinformed. I don't know how you can dismiss all the progress made in the Roman empire by saying it was just made by Roman citizens by not in Italy itself. That's absurd. If I invent something while I'm in Mexico, does it make it a Mexican invention? I can also definitely say that this is not an opinion popularly held by historians. My degree is in history and I have never even heard the idea that the dark ages had more progress than the Roman empire. I think you'd get laughed at if you presented that to a real historian.