(January 15, 2013 at 3:47 pm)Cinjin Wrote:

(January 15, 2013 at 1:20 pm)Drich Wrote: We have been literally designed to be loved by God.

No we have not, by your own admission. I have been told several times by you and the other brothers-in-christ that your god loves only his children, and to become one of his children you must seek him and only then will he reveal himself to you. That is NOT "designed to be loved," that is designed to grovel at the feet of a narcissistic dick bag.

Quote:So to receive the love we have been designed to receive places one in a state of eternal Joy. If you prize your independance away from God more than any measure of joy then their is no reason to seek God.

It would be hilarious if it wasn't such a pile of filthy apologist rhetoric. The idea that the creator of the universe designed everyone to be loved, but wait, no he didn't and it's actually your fault that he doesn't love you. Not only that, but he won't even have the decency to let you exist in one of his trillions of galaxies ... nope you're not allowed anywhere in the entirety of his universe. You get to burn in hell for all eternity.




God designed you to be loved ... god doesn't love you though, but hey god designed you to be loved ... god doesn't love you though, but hey god designed you to be loved ... god doesn't love you though, but hey god designed you to be loved ...god doesn't love you though, but hey god designed you to be loved ... god doesn't love you though, but hey god designed you to be loved ... you haven't found him yet?? Keep looking because god designed you to be loved ...god doesn't love you though, but hey god designed you to be loved...

Confused? Start from the beginning again and add infinite stupidity ...

Being designed for love does not ensure that we will Love God. This world is full of things, we try and fill this desire to be loved with.

Women, Men, Money, Drugs, Drink, Family, Work, Material things, Our Hobbies, Our personal philosphies, our selves, can all be used to fill the void of love God has placed in your heart.

(January 15, 2013 at 7:30 am)John V Wrote: Not nigh-impossible, plain old impossible. That's why there's a savior ya know.

So, by your own admission, Jesus is the solution to God's own problems. not ours.

Quote:So don't. Doesn't bother me. I find it interesting though that you waste your time bitching about it all. Seems to contradict your claim that your time is precious.

Making pithy internet posts takes much less time than a lifetime of dedicated spiritual slavery.

Drich Wrote:You have no clue what you are talking about.

I'm sorry, I'm not well-versed in logically-void nonsense.

You still can't answer the 'why' question. Please don't bother with "well, you have that choice" or "some don't". I'm asking, why should anybody want this kind of 'relationship'.

If you can't answer that, then your own faith has no basis.

(January 15, 2013 at 1:38 pm)Rhythm Wrote:

(January 15, 2013 at 12:42 pm)FallentoReason Wrote: I think we may have been talking about different things without realising it.

Worship

If a theistic god were in fact real, then that most likely means that it demands my worship because the book says so.

Answering the question you just brought up; no, I wouldn't worship my parents even if they asked me to. They are mortal beings like me.


Being Grateful

If a god really does exist, then I'm grateful for making this universe possible.

I'm also grateful that my parents decided to start a family. I guess they do deserve that much.

So when it comes down to it, being immortal is somehow the deciding factor as to whether or not something is deserving of worship? You can owe your life to something, no worship - something can make demands, no worship - but throw immortality in and you bend the knee at that point? I can show you many organisms that you do not owe your life to (not that this matters, apparently), that do not demand worship (not that this matters, apparently) but -are- biologically immortal. Should you and I start piling up stones in their honor?

What organisms are immortal?

Quote:Or do we have a scenario where you would require a creator who demands worship and happens to be immortal? Is it a package deal? If so, what about that package leads you to conclude that the hypothetical possessor of these attributes is worth your bending the knee?

It's most definitely a package deal. That might sound somewhat twisted but unfortunately Holy books have a lot of twisted stuff in there. I'm all about truth though and IF one of them were to be the Ultimate Truth of the Cosmos then it means that the reality is that you have to get down on your knees and worship that dictator.

(January 15, 2013 at 8:46 pm)FallentoReason Wrote: What organisms are immortal?

Here's a wiki on the subject that mentions a few - and there are more. Let wonder lead you to knowledge
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Biological_immortality

Quote:It's most definitely a package deal. That might sound somewhat twisted but unfortunately Holy books have a lot of twisted stuff in there. I'm all about truth though and IF one of them were to be the Ultimate Truth of the Cosmos then it means that the reality is that you have to get down on your knees and worship that dictator.

Is there some other unspoken qualifier as well? When you talk about the "ultimate truth" as it might be contained in one of those narratives is there something there that needs to be mentioned? Clear your mind of those narratives, is it just the three things in the package that seem to you to compel worship? Doesn't do it for me. I'm unclear as to how those three things would force me to worship the possessor of those attributes. Care to take a crack at that?

Further, bringing back those narratives - why would I -have- to worship any of those gods....I'm not sure I understand how you came to that conclusion? Personally, if any of the narratives commonly pondered over actually were true I have even less reason to bow -and I already have none. I'd have to worship it....-or what- ?

FallentoReason Wrote:I'm all about truth though and IF one of them were to be the Ultimate Truth of the Cosmos then it means that the reality is that you have to get down on your knees and worship that dictator.

Is being real enough, by itself, to merit worship?

Again, if God was just like the Bible says, I would be forced to admit he was real, but that's the extent of it. I'd never worship or praise that thing. Even being my creator does not entitle him to a single of iota of respect from me. That's the same kind of crap bad fathers tell their kids when nothing else about them earns them any.

I would 'love' a personal relationship with God, as long as he's quiet while making my sandwich and filling my stein after worshipping him with my load.

(January 15, 2013 at 6:18 pm)Drich Wrote: Being designed for love does not ensure that we will Love God. This world is full of things, we try and fill this desire to be loved with.

Nope, just another epic fail - as you have contradicted yourself yet again for the umpteenth time. You first said, we were designed to be loved by god, and of course now, you conveniently rewrite it to say that god designed you for love ... a far more general position that means absolutely nothing when you add the following deflection:

Quote:Women, Men, Money, Drugs, Drink, Family, Work, Material things, Our Hobbies, Our personal philosphies, our selves, can all be used to fill the void of love God has placed in your heart.

You are full of loathsome ideas aren't you. God wants to love us, he just can't ... no wait, he won't.

Jesus would role over in his grave if he heard the shit you try to sell around here. Meh, stupid ideas anyway.

Drich's explanation for any imperfections in his God's character are "it's actually our fault".

(January 15, 2013 at 11:07 pm)Rhythm Wrote:

(January 15, 2013 at 8:46 pm)FallentoReason Wrote: What organisms are immortal?

Here's a wiki on the subject that mentions a few - and there are more. Let wonder lead you to knowledge
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Biological_immortality

That's some pretty awesome stuff!

Quote:Is there some other unspoken qualifier as well? When you talk about the "ultimate truth" as it might be contained in one of those narratives is there something there that needs to be mentioned? Clear your mind of those narratives, is it just the three things in the package that seem to you to compel worship? Doesn't do it for me. I'm unclear as to how those three things would force me to worship the possessor of those attributes. Care to take a crack at that?

What three things are we talking about exactly? Immortality(?), the creator of everything & the command to worship it?

Quote:Further, bringing back those narratives - why would I -have- to worship any of those gods....I'm not sure I understand how you came to that conclusion? Personally, if any of the narratives commonly pondered over actually were true I have even less reason to bow -and I already have none. I'd have to worship it....-or what- ?

Or it chucks a fit and causes chaos/throws you to eternal punishment... It's the fear behind it I guess.

What you guys sound like to me when you say "even if X god was real, I still wouldn't worship it" is exactly the same as someone rebelling against the law per se. Just do it man... I don't get the rebellious attitude..?

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(January 15, 2013 at 11:25 pm)Ryantology Wrote:

FallentoReason Wrote:I'm all about truth though and IF one of them were to be the Ultimate Truth of the Cosmos then it means that the reality is that you have to get down on your knees and worship that dictator.

Is being real enough, by itself, to merit worship?

No, but it definitely is a requirement.

Quote:Again, if God was just like the Bible says, I would be forced to admit he was real, but that's the extent of it. I'd never worship or praise that thing. Even being my creator does not entitle him to a single of iota of respect from me. That's the same kind of crap bad fathers tell their kids when nothing else about them earns them any.

Please read my last sentences to Rhythm on this. I just don't understand the rebellious mentality.

(January 17, 2013 at 1:24 am)FallentoReason Wrote: That's some pretty awesome stuff!

I know right? I guess gods have to share the immortality pie with jellyfish.

Quote:What three things are we talking about exactly? Immortality(?), the creator of everything & the command to worship it?

Just those three, yes. I'm only attempting to narrow this down as when we began you stated that if there was a creator you'd worship it on the grounds of it's being a creator - nothing else was mentioned-. I doubted that this was true, and you, in your turn quantified my doubts. We had to keep adding things. IMHO, we still aren't at a point where one would have to worship anything - even taking whats below into account.

Quote:Or it chucks a fit and causes chaos/throws you to eternal punishment... It's the fear behind it I guess.

What you guys sound like to me when you say "even if X god was real, I still wouldn't worship it" is exactly the same as someone rebelling against the law per se. Just do it man... I don't get the rebellious attitude..?

The fear is where I suspected we would find ourselves eventually. Creator, demands, immortality, no, all of that is fluff. As long as it was capable of terrifying you - that would be enough. Personally, I'm simply not afraid. On the next bit though, it was once the law to push the blacks to the back of the bus - and I don't get the rebellious attitude - just do it man. Here I again I doubt that this actually works for you.