I am thinking that is is a throw back to the "slave" mentality Cinjin. Must have a master as master will "take-care of me" so for this to happen must "worship" master.

Or so it seems to me (simplistic I know, but then humans are)

---

House-Elves are a good example


When I hear of the theists and their collective "love" of their respective deities I think of this individual...


Yes I know, Kreacher is fictional. But then again so is this god thingy.

If there is a god, he's more like this guy than anything else.


Would you worship this guy?

(January 14, 2013 at 10:36 pm)FallentoReason Wrote: For me, if there really is a god out there, then it seems like I have no choice but to accept it as my Creator.

If such a being exists, why call it "creator" when it didn't directly and intentionally create you? We came from our parents, and they came from theirs. We're the current state of an unbroken chain of life going back to single-celled organisms/viruses. Were it broken by chance, by ill-fate, by circumstance, we would not exist.

You need to exercise a little more critical thinking. We're just biological, physical and chemical arrangements, temporary sequences, we're not "creations" of anything eternal such as a deity (whatever deity means). We're lifeforms. Life is merely a process. Life may arise from non-life, and with certainty, revert back to non-life again with death.

Quote:Hypothetically, if they weren't though, I think that in itself (i.e. the fact that it's truth) is enough reason to worship that particular god, because I value truth and there's nothing that can be done to change the fact that it wants its ass kissed.

Currently no one has any good reason to think there's a god, let alone worship it. More-so what makes you think such a higher life-form with an indefinite lifespan, would want, need or care for your insignificant devotion?

(January 15, 2013 at 3:05 am)FallentoReason Wrote: When you get your hands on new technology, are you grateful for the sales person at the store or the innovators of the technology?

Depends. Are you grateful for the people who work in the national grid that ensure your home is provided with a near-constant supply of electricity to power the electronic devices? Are they grateful for you using their services and contributing to their salary/payroll because you HAD to buy the technology rather than suffer without?

Or are you realizing its senseless to be "grateful" in the context you're using because you HAD TO PAY to use the new technology, additional tax slapped on top by the heads of state, and for the weekly electricity meter?

Why do you feel like you owe somebody something all the time? That's not a healthy lifestyle.

(January 15, 2013 at 6:28 am)Welsh cake Wrote:

(January 14, 2013 at 10:36 pm)FallentoReason Wrote: For me, if there really is a god out there, then it seems like I have no choice but to accept it as my Creator.

If such a being exists, why call it "creator" when it didn't directly and intentionally create you? We came from our parents, and they came from theirs. We're the current state of an unbroken chain of life going back to single-celled organisms/viruses. Were it broken by chance, by ill-fate, by circumstance, we would not exist.

You need to exercise a little more critical thinking. We're just biological, physical and chemical arrangements, temporary sequences, we're not "creations" of anything eternal such as a deity (whatever deity means). We're lifeforms. Life is merely a process. Life may arise from non-life, and with certainty, revert back to non-life again with death.

Did we not arise from the stuff the universe is made of?

Quote:

Quote:Hypothetically, if they weren't though, I think that in itself (i.e. the fact that it's truth) is enough reason to worship that particular god, because I value truth and there's nothing that can be done to change the fact that it wants its ass kissed.

Currently no one has any good reason to think there's a god, let alone worship it. More-so what makes you think such a higher life-form with an indefinite lifespan, would want, need or care for your insignificant devotion?

Ask a theist. They believe this without the hypothetical.

Quote:

(January 15, 2013 at 3:05 am)FallentoReason Wrote: When you get your hands on new technology, are you grateful for the sales person at the store or the innovators of the technology?

Depends. Are you grateful for the people who work in the national grid that ensure your home is provided with a near-constant supply of electricity to power the electronic devices? Are they grateful for you using their services and contributing to their salary/payroll because you HAD to buy the technology rather than suffer without?

Or are you realizing its senseless to be "grateful" in the context you're using because you HAD TO PAY to use the new technology, additional tax slapped on top by the heads of state, and for the weekly electricity meter?

Why do you feel like you owe somebody something all the time? That's not a healthy lifestyle.

[/quote]

I was thinking of technology such as a new 3D TV or w/e, something that isn't essential to life.

Do you think I should be more selfish? I do have a tendency to give to others more than what I want to receive at times.

(January 14, 2013 at 10:08 pm)Ryantology Wrote: The rules you must follow to have this are arbitrary and nigh-impossible to actually fulfill. This can only be because God does not want a relationship with a normal human being, one who values empathy and understanding over slavish devotion and submission to a being which refuses to even prove its own reality. One who makes cruel demands and inflicts random disasters and miseries even upon his most dedicated followers.

There's no evidence that even those sorry rewards are actually real, so why should I waste my precious time working on them? As a normal human being, why should I even want to know this God?

From the bio of Bill Hicks:
... There was a sense of optimism, engendered by Bill’s belief in a one-consciousness universe. According to Colleen McGarr, “He was getting a lot more light-hearted, because he felt really good.” He was at peace with himself and the world, able to face death because he knew there was a God, not tied to any religion, just some very creative being out there. He realized that life was too goddamn weird for there not to be anyone out there, perhaps a “prankster god”. He looked forward with hope, readied himself for the next life, calling his friends to say goodbye before ceasing to speak on February 14th.

At 11:20pm on Saturday, 26th February, he died in Little Rock, Arkansas, buried in the family plot in Leakesville, Mississippi. At the memorial service Hicks’ brother read out a piece Bill had written and requested be read: “I left in love, in laughter, and in truth, and wherever truth, love and laughter abide, I am there in spirit.” Bill’s spirit then floated up into the cosmic One Consciousness where he continues to enjoy the ride throughout eternity and infinity.

Edit: Apologies, I just realised this was a question in Christianity. But perhaps it will still allow the OP to understand more in general why people may want a relationship with a higher power.

(January 14, 2013 at 10:08 pm)Ryantology Wrote: The rules you must follow to have this are arbitrary and nigh-impossible to actually fulfill.

Not nigh-impossible, plain old impossible. That's why there's a savior ya know.

Quote:There's no evidence that even those sorry rewards are actually real, so why should I waste my precious time working on them?

So don't. Doesn't bother me. I find it interesting though that you waste your time bitching about it all. Seems to contradict your claim that your time is precious.

(January 15, 2013 at 6:09 am)pocaracas Wrote: If there is a god, he's more like this guy than anything else.


Would you worship this guy?

No but I would love to sit down and have an in depth conversation with the character

(January 15, 2013 at 3:41 am)FallentoReason Wrote: Because my parents and their parents and the parents of their parents all wouldn't be here without this hypothetical god.

Are you trolling me amigo? As it stands, your parents (which are not hypothetical) -are- here without this god. This is what makes your readiness to worship so puzzling. You seem to be incapable of even grasping this point. It is only when you propose a creator god that the notion of worship (or even a discussion of it) seems to find traction with you. Your creator parents are clearly not worthy (and again, I'm not interested in how the chain of causality would ultimately terminate with a hypothetical god).

Clear your mind of this hypothetical god entirely, then explain to me why your parents are not worthy of worship as your creator. If, as you alluded to in a previous post, it has to do with demands of worship, are you willing to entertain the notion that if they (your parents) demanded your worship that you would comply?

(January 15, 2013 at 9:50 am)Rhythm Wrote:

(January 15, 2013 at 3:41 am)FallentoReason Wrote: Because my parents and their parents and the parents of their parents all wouldn't be here without this hypothetical god.

Are you trolling me amigo? As it stands, your parents (which are not hypothetical) -are- here without this god. This is what makes your readiness to worship so puzzling. You seem to be incapable of even grasping this point. It is only when you propose a creator god that the notion of worship (or even a discussion of it) seems to find traction with you. Your creator parents are clearly not worthy (and again, I'm not interested in how the chain of causality would ultimately terminate with a hypothetical god).

Clear your mind of this hypothetical god entirely, then explain to me why your parents are not worthy of worship as your creator. If, as you alluded to in a previous post, it has to do with demands of worship, are you willing to entertain the notion that if they (your parents) demanded your worship that you would comply?

I think we may have been talking about different things without realising it.

Worship

If a theistic god were in fact real, then that most likely means that it demands my worship because the book says so.

Answering the question you just brought up; no, I wouldn't worship my parents even if they asked me to. They are mortal beings like me.


Being Grateful

If a god really does exist, then I'm grateful for making this universe possible.

I'm also grateful that my parents decided to start a family. I guess they do deserve that much.

(January 14, 2013 at 10:08 pm)Ryantology Wrote: The rules you must follow to have this are arbitrary and nigh-impossible to actually fulfill.

THAT IS WHY WE DO NOT HAVE TO FOLLOW THEM When We Seek Attonement. Attonement allows for Righteousness To Be Found APART or AWAY From the Law. Meaning we can still be a slave to sin and still be in a state of Grace.

Quote:This can only be because God does not want a relationship with a normal human being, one who values empathy and understanding over slavish devotion and submission to a being which refuses to even prove its own reality.

You have no clue what you are talking about. Attonemnt allows one to commit sin, and find forgiveness. It just does not allow one to love sin more than God, and still find righteousness.

Quote:One who makes cruel demands and inflicts random disasters and miseries even upon his most dedicated followers.

There's no evidence that even those sorry rewards are actually real, so why should I waste my precious time working on them? As a normal human being, why should I even want to know this God?

That is what this life is about. To make that determination.

We have been literally designed to be loved by God. So to receive the love we have been designed to receive places one in a state of eternal Joy. If you prize your independance away from God more than any measure of joy then their is no reason to seek God.