(March 9, 2013 at 4:53 pm)jstrodel Wrote: Do you have any evidence for claiming that what I write has "no relationship to reality"?

The fact that you misrepresent the beliefs of atheists? The part where you claim atheism lures in the youth with pornography and rock music? You know, all the blatantly false strawmen you erect?

You do realize that you actually look like a poe when you do that, right? You're making your religion look worse with every new post you make.

(March 10, 2013 at 9:36 am)Esquilax Wrote: The part where you claim atheism lures in the youth with pornography and rock music?

On this very forum, you can see pornography and rock music as well as a large number of youth (people under 25, I have seen 2 under 18). Are you arguing that atheists don't use the things to advance their agenda (whether intentionally or it just has the effect of strengthening atheist communities) or are you arguing that atheists simply do these things but it is not part of advancing their agenda.

This is really just a way of playing with words. Whatever you do for the atheist movement and whatever you give to the atheist movement, that is what the atheist movement uses to attract people to it.

You can use non-rational persuasion techniques like mocking to make your point, but that won't fly in the academic journals you so revere. Sort of a double standard, isn't it.

This is not an academic journal. I know this may surprise you.

Not one person has made a single argument against the claim "atheism as a movement relies on the support of people under the age of 25 that it gains through drugs, sex and political propaganda".


No one has actually attempted to disprove the claim (other than one person who took an unscientific poll and posted in another thread about her ecstasy use). The only response has been to mock the claim and ridicule the person making the claim.

I will take this to be further evidence of the truth of the claim, futher evidence by the members of the board mocking and ridiculing the claim doing the exact actions that the claim describes.

(March 10, 2013 at 2:09 pm)jstrodel Wrote: On this very forum, you can see pornography and rock music as well as a large number of youth (people under 25, I have seen 2 under 18).

You can see porn anywhere on the internet. Its everywhere. Am I the only one who laughs when the porn actress/actor is wearing a cross or has a tattoo of one?

As for the music there is a great variety. My preference is epic classical. There is an awful lot of rock music and my bets most theists like it too.

(March 10, 2013 at 2:09 pm)jstrodel Wrote: Are you arguing that atheists don't use the things to advance their agenda (whether intentionally or it just has the effect of strengthening atheist communities) or are you arguing that atheists simply do these things but it is not part of advancing their agenda.

Or maybe seems most human beings like music and this website being a location where people communicate music is inevitably going to come up at some point.

You're chatting some tin foil hat level crazy dude.

(March 10, 2013 at 2:09 pm)jstrodel Wrote: This is really just a way of playing with words. Whatever you do for the atheist movement and whatever you give to the atheist movement, that is what the atheist movement uses to attract people to it.

I do nothing other than show up here from time to time.

(March 10, 2013 at 2:09 pm)jstrodel Wrote: You can use non-rational persuasion techniques like mocking to make your point, but that won't fly in the academic journals you so revere. Sort of a double standard, isn't it.

The mocking is just because its hilarious. When you say something silly people will laugh and poke fun. There isn't much point in taking something ridiculous all that seriously.

(March 9, 2013 at 12:53 pm)jstrodel Wrote: When did I say it was 100%? Of course it is not 100%. It is probably 30-40 percent of the atheist movement is the left, the radical university professors, the left wing music and arts community. Maybe it is 60%.

Well, that's certainly a jump.

jstrodel Wrote:Not one person has made a single argument against the claim "atheism as a movement relies on the support of people under the age of 25 that it gains through drugs, sex and political propaganda".

Why do we even have to? No sensical atheist wants there to be an "atheist movement". We're not a Church. We're not a congregation. We're individuals who do not hold any religious belief. What's so difficult for you to comprehend?

You think because a couple of thousand 18-year olds trip on acid and call themselves atheist, THEY'RE the "atheist movement"? Am I allowed to call the Westboro Baptist Church a representative of the "Christian movement", or would that fuck up your points too badly?

(March 10, 2013 at 2:15 pm)jstrodel Wrote: No one has actually attempted to disprove the claim (other than one person who took an unscientific poll and posted in another thread about her ecstasy use). The only response has been to mock the claim and ridicule the person making the claim.

Maybe you should back up your claim with some evidence first. Then people might give a damn enough to take you a little more seriously.

Quote:Or maybe seems most human beings like music and this website being a location where people communicate music is inevitably going to come up at some point.

You're chatting some tin foil hat level crazy dude.

Why understand ethics in a way that emphasizes intentions and gives people the benefit of the doubt? Is what I am saying really tin foil level crazy?

Two little kids get arrested for stealing spray paint. They walk down the hall and the police starts integorrating them. One cop starts playing good cop, the other cop starts playing cop. The kids confess everything.

When the kids get out, one kid looks at the other kid and goes "man, did you see those police officers? You see how I was able to manipulate that one? What an idiot! I got him to like me"

That is what you are doing now.

Understanding ethics as a purely intentional, non consequentialist field and seeing people involved in a culture war as having pure motives is what you would call tin foil hat.

The people the fight the culture war realize their strength is in the bars, in the rock clubs, in the liquor stores, in the bedroom. Why do you think the Democrats let Hollywood endorse their candidates and don't rebuke them? They don't care about the sex and the drugs and it helps them.

The same is true for the atheist movement. They don't care and it helps them.

So my response to that is: "Atheists use drugs, sex, rock and roll, and adolescent rebellion to fuel their movement". This is not tin foil hat, this is true.

(March 10, 2013 at 2:41 pm)jstrodel Wrote: Why understand ethics in a way that emphasizes intentions and gives people the benefit of the doubt? Is what I am saying really tin foil level crazy?

Ranting about rock being a tool to advance the 'atheist agenda' is pretty crazy. Most of the people I have met that are christians were into rock. One who made a big habbit of telling me I will go to hell was really into it.

(March 10, 2013 at 2:41 pm)jstrodel Wrote: Two little kids get arrested for stealing spray paint. They walk down the hall and the police starts integorrating them. One cop starts playing good cop, the other cop starts playing cop. The kids confess everything.

When the kids get out, one kid looks at the other kid and goes "man, did you see those police officers? You see how I was able to manipulate that one? What an idiot! I got him to like me"

That is what you are doing now.

What the hell are you talking about?

(March 10, 2013 at 2:41 pm)jstrodel Wrote: Understanding ethics as a purely intentional, non consequentialist field and seeing people involved in a culture war as having pure motives is what you would call tin foil hat.

The 'culture war' you seems to think is happening isn't atheist vs theist. Young people always have a culture the older generation thinks is messed up. I see just as many theists as atheists go out to drink, take some drugs and fuck.

(March 10, 2013 at 2:41 pm)jstrodel Wrote: The people the fight the culture war realize their strength is in the bars, in the rock clubs, in the liquor stores, in the bedroom. Why do you think the Democrats let Hollywood endorse their candidates and don't rebuke them? They don't care about the sex and the drugs and it helps them.

You are very melodramatic. I don't give a damn about democrats I live in the UK.

(March 10, 2013 at 2:41 pm)jstrodel Wrote: The same is true for the atheist movement. They don't care and it helps them.

But it isn't any of your business if people want to get drunk/high and have sex while dancing to rock music. Nor is it mine or anyone else. Its up to them what they want to do. All anyone can do is give advice.

(March 10, 2013 at 2:41 pm)jstrodel Wrote: So my response to that is: "Atheists use drugs, sex, rock and roll, and adolescent rebellion to fuel their movement". This is not tin foil hat, this is true.

It is pretty tin foil hat crazy. Its nonsense. Theists are doing the same thing. Like I said before its not a theist vs atheist issue. Its just popular youth culture. Its not to fuel the movement most people my age I have met just aren't fussed at all about religion. That's not rebellion its indifference.

It is tin foil hat crazy... theist are doing the same thing. You just accepted that what I am saying is true, but it applies to theists and then you called me crazy for accepting it.