Assuming "bad sexual desires" are those desires that would inflict harm on others if acted upon, I think it might be the case that Christianity (or any religion with draconian sexual ethics) might at least be partially to blame for people developing such desires.

Here's why. Most denominations of Christianity prohibit all sex outside of marriage. Not only that, a large percent of them also prohibit masturbation or even just the thought of sex. However, because teenagers are so horny, even the most religiously conservative teenager will probably at least masturbate and view porn. After each act, the teenager will just confess their sin, promise to God not to do it again and then repeat it the next day, and then confess their sin...so on and so forth.

If a person believes that all sexual activity outside of marriage is sinful, then really to them there's no difference between fantasizing about normal sex, and say fantasizing about raping and murdering people. It's all sinful and it can all be confessed afterwards. While probably most young fundie masturbators won't have the desire at all to fantasize about rape perhaps for some the idea for whatever reason might pop in their head and instead of thinking "no, that's wrong and I'm not going to explore it" they would think "it's all sinful so I might as well explore fantasizing about raping people and then just confess it afterwards."

Your argument is so incoherent and illogical that it barely deserves a response. Instead I'll ask you a question.

Are you asserting that, like the desire for sex, we all have the desire to rape, pillage and murder? If this is your argument, then it goes without saying it's also an admission that you have these desires, thus my question to you is a simple one - how do you, TEGH, overcome your desires to rape, pillage and murder?

(March 17, 2013 at 12:28 am)Aractus Wrote: Your argument is so incoherent and illogical that it barely deserves a response. Instead I'll ask you a question.

Are you asserting that, like the desire for sex, we all have the desire to rape, pillage and murder? If this is your argument, then it goes without saying it's also an admission that you have these desires, thus my question to you is a simple one - how do you, TEGH, overcome your desires to rape, pillage and murder?

No, I'm not. And even if I did, how I might over come that is irrelevant.

My argument is that some individuals for whatever reasons may have the propensity to develop a desire to rape and murder. If said individuals also happen to be fundamentalist Christians, they may be more inclined to develop and act upon that desire than they would if they were more liberal because fundamentalist Christians lack an outside-of-marriage sexual ethics system.

Aractus,
This is all I have for your lack of understanding:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wCy8MpT45gk

I don't think that focussing on sex alone will support your argument TEGH. A strong part of it but; I think it could be that the whole of the "religious, draconian ethics" is a contributing factor. The "promise to God not to do it again and then repeat it the next day, and then confess their sin...so on and so forth. get out of jail free card that religion supplies after inculcating the guilt of just being human; I feel is what you are alluding to and using to support your argument about the sexual aspect of it.

I have read an article where paedophile priests see no harm in what they are doing as they are not going against their doctrine and have the added advantage of the get out of jail free card to rely on.

So yes on the whole I would agree with you that religion IS harmful overall including sexual desires.

(March 17, 2013 at 12:35 am)teaearlgreyhot Wrote: No, I'm not. And even if I did, how I might over come that is irrelevant.

My argument is that some individuals for whatever reasons may have the propensity to develop a desire to rape and murder. If said individuals also happen to be fundamentalist Christians, they may be more inclined to develop and act upon that desire than they would if they were more liberal because fundamentalist Christians lack an outside-of-marriage sexual ethics system.

Okay, if that's your argument then it's total bullshit.

"some individuals for whatever reasons may have the propensity to develop a desire to rape and murder"

Every person on earth has the potential to become a violent person, every person. Propensity, to use your own word, is based on environmental factors that would facilitate the potential to be developed or perceived favourably by the person. If said persons happen to be fundamentalist Christians, it doesn't mean squat. All it means is that fundamentalists are also capable of becoming violent human beings, just like everybody else is capable of it - it doesn't mean their faith made them more likely to entertain violent fantasies as per your assumption.

Sexual ethics has absolutely nothing to do with violence. Rape is not even a sexual trait, it's a manifestation of violent behaviour. Your association of sex and violence makes me think you have the problem that you are trying to insist Christians have.

(March 17, 2013 at 1:03 am)Aractus Wrote:

(March 17, 2013 at 12:35 am)teaearlgreyhot Wrote: No, I'm not. And even if I did, how I might over come that is irrelevant.

My argument is that some individuals for whatever reasons may have the propensity to develop a desire to rape and murder. If said individuals also happen to be fundamentalist Christians, they may be more inclined to develop and act upon that desire than they would if they were more liberal because fundamentalist Christians lack an outside-of-marriage sexual ethics system.

Okay, if that's your argument then it's total bullshit.

"some individuals for whatever reasons may have the propensity to develop a desire to rape and murder"

Every person on earth has the potential to become a violent person, every person. Propensity, to use your own word, is based on environmental factors that would facilitate the potential to be developed or perceived favourably by the person. If said persons happen to be fundamentalist Christians, it doesn't mean squat. All it means is that fundamentalists are also capable of becoming violent human beings, just like everybody else is capable of it - it doesn't mean their faith made them more likely to entertain violent fantasies as per your assumption.

So you're just going to ignore my point that fundamentalists lack an outside-of-marriage sexual ethics and how that could allow unrestrained feeding into evil desires?

Quote:Sexual ethics has absolutely nothing to do with violence. Rape is not even a sexual trait, it's a manifestation of violent behaviour. Your association of sex and violence makes me think you have the problem that you are trying to insist Christians have.

Rape involves sex obviously and there's a whole genre of rape porn. And rape isn't the main focus of my post. I used it as an example. I mean to include all evil sexual desires that involve harm such as child molestation, torture, abduction, death, etc.

And please stop with the ad hominem. I could be pedobear incarnate but accusing me of that wouldn't defeat my argument.

(March 17, 2013 at 1:20 am)teaearlgreyhot Wrote: Rape involves sex obviously and there's a whole genre of rape porn.

Which is illegal in Australia - and most of the world - as I've pointed out before. This tells me America has a problem, not Christians.

(March 17, 2013 at 1:03 am)Aractus Wrote: Rape is not even a sexual trait, it's a manifestation of violent behaviour. Your association of sex and violence makes me think you have the problem that you are trying to insist Christians have.

If you had used the word 'sensual' instead of 'sexual', your argument would have had merit. Rape is certainly a violent act; however, your insistence that the act is devoid of its obvious sexual attribute is telling.

Although there may be exceptions, when anyone uses the term 'rape', the sexes of the victim and attacker are understood with a high degree of confidence.

TEGH didn't argue that all christians are rapists or that all rapists are christian. His argument was that given the very repressive nature of sex education in the christian tradition that there can be no difference between sexual fantasies, realized or not, outside of intercourse within marriage.

(March 17, 2013 at 1:34 am)Aractus Wrote:

(March 17, 2013 at 1:20 am)teaearlgreyhot Wrote: Rape involves sex obviously and there's a whole genre of rape porn.

Which is illegal in Australia - and most of the world - as I've pointed out before. This tells me America has a problem, not Christians.

I used that as example to demonstrate that rape has obvious sexual aspects. It turns some people on.

America has a huge population of fundamentalist Christians btw so it's not comparable to Australia.