(March 24, 2013 at 7:40 am)Tonus Wrote:

(March 24, 2013 at 1:38 am)Drich Wrote: I have yet to meet one person who has followed Luke 11's A/S/K and failed to come back without an answer from God.

Ask god to feed the hungry and house the homeless the world over. Do so sincerely, as I would imagine that many, many believers do. Let us know what god's answer is.

God is feeding a substantial portion of the worlds hungry and homeless now. Where I live, the homeless are taken care of by two organizations, the rescue mission and the salvation army. The Christian church takes care of people all over the world.

As for the question of why God allows all the suffering, that is due to evil in the world and the worlds separation from God. But God does care and God loves the world.

(March 24, 2013 at 2:47 pm)catfish Wrote:

(March 24, 2013 at 2:35 pm)Texas Sailor Wrote: The truth is...No individual can confirm what I say is true by killing themselves or me. Since faith is all that is required, there is no proof needed and therein no proof available to either confirm or deny my claims.

Here's the thing about the crap I bolded above.... Sooner or later one gets confused as to what they say...

http://atheistforums.org/thread-17928-po...#pid419759

That was where you promised everlasting life, so now it's time for you to redefine "everlasting" or "killing".

Oh I remember saying it. What's your question? Words have many different meanings. I have no doubt you know what the words you've qouted me saying mean. Do you seek clarification of context?

(March 24, 2013 at 3:43 pm)jstrodel Wrote: As for the question of why God allows all the suffering, that is due to evil in the world and the worlds separation from God. But God does care and God loves the world.

Four year olds get cancer because premarital sex. Got it.

No, the whole creation is bound in a prison of sin. Sin entered into the world through the sins of the first people, which affected the way that God interacts with nature and the provision of people on the earth. When people sin, it changes the way that God interacts with them. It happens on an individual level, as in God punishing people, but it happens on a corporate level, as all of humanity suffers for the collective weight of humans presence on the earth.

You can see this in the physical world in that peoples action affect each other, though they have separate wills. They affect each other spiritually too.

(March 24, 2013 at 3:58 pm)jstrodel Wrote: No, the whole creation is bound in a prison of sin. Sin entered into the world through the sins of the first people, which affected the way that God interacts with nature and the provision of people on the earth. When people sin, it changes the way that God interacts with them. It happens on an individual level, as in God punishing people, but it happens on a corporate level, as all of humanity suffers for the collective weight of humans presence on the earth.

You can see this in the physical world in that peoples action affect each other, though they have separate wills. They affect each other spiritually too.

Corporate greed, therefore god causing miscarriages. Got it.

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Ezekiel 18:19-20
19 “Yet you ask, ‘Why does the son not share the guilt of his father?’ Since the son has done what is just and right and has been careful to keep all my decrees, he will surely live. 20 The one who sins is the one who will die. The child will not share the guilt of the parent, nor will the parent share the guilt of the child. The righteousness of the righteous will be credited to them, and the wickedness of the wicked will be charged against them.

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Whatever happened to this?^

(March 24, 2013 at 3:58 pm)jstrodel Wrote: No, the whole creation is bound in a prison of sin. Sin entered into the world through the sins of the first people

So, you are a Young-Earth Creationist?

Drich wrote:

Quote:So it is your position that every 12 year old girl who has ever asked God to stop her father from raping her, has always been raped?

Do you have 'proof' of this or does that only apply to God, and I am to take your word on faith?

I was six when I found myself yelling, "God, please help!" My friend was being raped right in front of me and I had to watch. God didn't help my friend. God didn't even help me, because I still have nightmares once in a while. So don't bullshit people that there's no proof. What proof do you need? As much as jstrodel gives about God telling him everything that would happen in his life? BULLSHIT!
If somebody says god has a purpose for that, theists out there, I'll ignore you because that's ridiculous.

I know a total of eight other people who were raped between ages 5 and 10. If they prayed or not, I don't care. If I were god, I'd help anyway.

But hey, that's not every girl who has been raped, right? God was just busy saving other girls and he didn't have time to save my friend. I get it.

That signature is awesome. My dad has also told me I use the word epistemology too much.


No, I am not a young earth creationist, but I think that sin effects the nature of the world, the physical world, it causes disease, it changes the way that God judges nations and entire people groups at once.

Darkstar - There is a difference between punishing sin and individuals suffering for the effects of others sins. God will not punish a child because his dad is an alcoholic, but he will suffer for it. Similarly, God will not punish someone because someone sins and pollutes a lake and someone gets sick, but their sin will effect the lake.

These are natural consequences but there are spiritual consequences as well. The whole spiritual world is unseen but teeming with a wide variety of different spirits that respond to peoples sins and ways in which they relate to the world.

The whole creation groans, all of life on earth is groaning underneath the created orders pain it feels weighted down by the sins of the people living on it.

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(March 24, 2013 at 4:25 pm)jrsm_10 Wrote: Drich wrote:

Quote:So it is your position that every 12 year old girl who has ever asked God to stop her father from raping her, has always been raped?

Do you have 'proof' of this or does that only apply to God, and I am to take your word on faith?

I was six when I found myself yelling, "God, please help!" My friend was being raped right in front of me and I had to watch. God didn't help my friend. God didn't even help me, because I still have nightmares once in a while. So don't bullshit people that there's no proof. What proof do you need? As much as jstrodel gives about God telling him everything that would happen in his life? BULLSHIT!
If somebody says god has a purpose for that, theists out there, I'll ignore you because that's ridiculous.

I know a total of eight other people who were raped between ages 5 and 10. If they prayed or not, I don't care. If I were god, I'd help anyway.

But hey, that's not every girl who has been raped, right? God was just busy saving other girls and he didn't have time to save my friend. I get it.

I am sorry you have had that experience. I am sorry that God didn't help your friends.

I believe that everything will be made right in the end, the people who do evil and rape others will go to hell. I hope that is comforting.

(March 24, 2013 at 4:27 pm)jstrodel Wrote: I believe that everything will be made right in the end, the people who do evil and rape others will go to hell. I hope that is comforting.

Oh, you're deliusional. That's not what happens! We all like to believe that bad things will happen to bad people. Well, they don't, and when they do, it's just as likely to happen to good people too.

Of course, in your fantasy, that rapist can apologize to God and everything will be okay. Hey jrsm_10, I can't wait to see your face when you meet the rapist in heaven!

Cleanshavenjesus worte:

Quote:Hey jrsm_10, I can't wait to see your face when you meet the rapist in heaven!

... or in hell, since I'm not worthy of heaven being atheist and all. We might get to share fire bunk beds.

I'd rape the devil and make him watch.