(April 7, 2013 at 9:38 am)Mr_Dew7 Wrote:

(April 7, 2013 at 9:27 am)futilethewinds Wrote: Okay, to clarify, it says that if you worship God, you will be protected from evil, it does not directly say you will not get raped. It's much more easy to believe that it says that.

If this were true, it would only mean that your God would prefer to protect people from evil who worship him, rather than people who actually deserve protection. I will stand by my statement that this is petty of him.

Since God is omnipotent, wouldn't it be logical to assume that His judgement outranks ours? Rape is evil right?

Yes, rape is evil, no argument there.

There are plenty of prison inmates who truly believe in God but have also murdered people. Should they be protected from God over a nonbeliever that has never harmed another person?

(April 7, 2013 at 9:29 am)Mr_Dew7 Wrote: So, if you believes in a perfect place with a perfect God, earthly things would still be better than gifts from that place?

Well if it's a "God" is what is been contended by the premise, obviously, if it was God, (ie. worthy of worship), then eternal praise would be greater than earned praise.

However to answer your question, I do believe earned praise is greater than happiness to be offered in the next world or anything that can be given by the creator, which is why to me, the problem of evil/suffering is not an issue. I believe that earned praise that we go through, is worth the troubles this world gives humanity, especially given perspective that we will be at everlasting peace and that praiseworthiness earned remains, while the suffering passes away.

This is why to me, the problem of evil/suffering is not a sound argument, and doesn't disprove the possibility of a benevolent creator.

I love the benevolent creator, I adore it, but I don't worship it. If praiseworthiness can be given as much as it can be earned and there is no edge of earned praiseworthiness over given praiseworthiness, than I don't see why the Creator would make us earn praiseworthiness through a world that evil and suffering is a huge factor of defining our humanity.

If he can just give us eternal paradise and give us the same value without us earning it, I don't see why he makes us humanity go through suffering.

I understand the Biblical view, that the world was perfect, and it's a fallen state, but I disagree with it, on a number of fronts.

(April 7, 2013 at 9:31 am)Maelstrom Wrote:

(April 7, 2013 at 9:29 am)Mr_Dew7 Wrote: I believe in it for good reason.

Do you think that you could provide a valid reason other than the comfort and good feelings it provides? Because in all honesty, there are plenty of healthier ways to find comfort and good feelings than the rabbit hole of religion.

To you religion is unhealthy. And that it is. But I claim to have a personal relationship with God, which I have because He loved me enough to bring me back from the quite literal edge. He is my comfort and my strength, my righteousness and defense. I have tried all other ways to get what I needed, from refusing God, to disbelief in Him, to hatred of Him, to apathy. I tried satanism and neechrin dai shonen Buddhism, I think that's spelled right. I tried to be agnostic and to be free thinking. I tried what I now know to.be called atheism. No where have I found what I sought other than with God.

---

(April 7, 2013 at 9:31 am)Zen Badger Wrote:

(April 7, 2013 at 9:13 am)Mr_Dew7 Wrote: I'm sure you know it doesn't say that. Read Psalm chapter 91. That is true. For men and women and children and any who believe. I apologize here for sounding so rude. It is not my intention to be.

And yet, true believers get raped and killed all the time.

Yet another of gods epic fails.

I'm glad someone is keeping track of the worlds true believer population and when they die!

(April 7, 2013 at 9:40 am)Maelstrom Wrote:

(April 7, 2013 at 9:33 am)MysticKnight Wrote: Is this true? Or do studies show religion makes people happier?

Is it real happiness when it is based on a lie? I believe that true happiness is nearly impossible to attain and maintain. That is why people wear masks in public to hide how they are truly feeling. Have you seen some of the crazy, psychotic smiles that religious people have? That is not from real happiness. Those smiles are formed from delusions.

Maybe you're self-projecting? I think a lot of religious people are happy and relatively at peace, and a lot of is due to the sense of value their religion gives them.

Yes happiness can be based on a lie. For example, you can be married, and your wife has cheated on you. But you don't know that. And you are happy because your wife is over all great to you. Your wife told you she would never cheat on you even if the whole world was offered to her. You believed her. You are happy. But it's on a lie.

This is just an example. So yes, true happiness can be based on lies often.

(April 7, 2013 at 9:41 am)catfish Wrote:

(April 7, 2013 at 4:48 am)Mr_Dew7 Wrote: I just want to see what proof you have for or against God. Not intending to turn this into a nasty debate, I just want to hear what you all have to say about the subject of the God that I believe in, from every religious view. If you would be so kind!

Hmmmm, trick question I suppose, to ask someone to prove a negative when you openly admit to not being able to prove the positive.

I'd be more than happy to show you the proofs against the Bible if you're up to it? This will require a question and answer portion which I'll start now.

Do you believe the Bible is infallible, inerrant, or some other variation of always correct?

I believe that God is infallible. The Bible is a book, a guideline for believers written by divinely inspired fallible men. With that said, I believe that the Bible is true on the subjects that lie therein.

(April 7, 2013 at 10:12 am)MysticKnight Wrote: Maybe your self-projecting?

I doubt it. I am a naturally pessimistic individual. All my life others have informed me that I need to think more positively and I will be happy. When I hear that, all I think about is the same line in relation to finding god if I only seek.

I believe that true happiness is basically unattainable and that anyone who claims to have discovered it is just fooling himself.

(April 7, 2013 at 10:18 am)Maelstrom Wrote:

(April 7, 2013 at 10:12 am)MysticKnight Wrote: Maybe your self-projecting?

I doubt it. I am a naturally pessimistic individual. All my life others have informed me that I need to think more positively and I will be happy. When I hear that, all I think about is the same line in relation to finding god if I only seek.

I believe that true happiness is basically unattainable and that anyone who claims to have discovered it is just fooling himself.

You only doubt it because you're pessimistic.

---

(April 7, 2013 at 10:17 am)Mr_Dew7 Wrote: I believe that God is infallible. The Bible is a book, a guideline for believers written by divinely inspired fallible men. With that said, I believe that the Bible is true on the subjects that lie therein.

So you think that the OT laws were truly commanded by God?
.

(April 7, 2013 at 9:42 am)futilethewinds Wrote:

(April 7, 2013 at 9:38 am)Mr_Dew7 Wrote: Since God is omnipotent, wouldn't it be logical to assume that His judgement outranks ours? Rape is evil right?

Yes, rape is evil, no argument there.

There are plenty of prison inmates who truly believe in God but have also murdered people. Should they be protected from God over a nonbeliever that has never harmed another person?

Oh my i hate that question. It's a difficult one. I suspect you know the answer I will give? It's not my decision to make though, He obviously favors those who love Him.

(April 7, 2013 at 10:18 am)Maelstrom Wrote: I believe that true happiness is basically unattainable and that anyone who claims to have discovered it is just fooling himself.

I don't think we are meant to be perpetually happy. But I do think almost everyone, has moments of happiness. This is even true for the poorest people, starving people, etc.. Are they over all happy? No.

Are some people over all happy? Yes. That means at most moments in their lives, they are happy.

That said, I myself do find moments of happiness, moments of laughter, moments of fun, and moments of peace.

Other times, when I think about politics, the suffering, the disappointments in my life, regrets, I am disturbed to say the least and I am not at peace.

Overall, I can say, I have more moments of peace, then otherwise.

I am not tricking myself. It's simply a state I am in.

(April 7, 2013 at 10:20 am)catfish Wrote:

(April 7, 2013 at 10:18 am)Maelstrom Wrote: I doubt it. I am a naturally pessimistic individual. All my life others have informed me that I need to think more positively and I will be happy. When I hear that, all I think about is the same line in relation to finding god if I only seek.

I believe that true happiness is basically unattainable and that anyone who claims to have discovered it is just fooling himself.

You only doubt it because you're pessimistic.

---

(April 7, 2013 at 10:17 am)Mr_Dew7 Wrote: I believe that God is infallible. The Bible is a book, a guideline for believers written by divinely inspired fallible men. With that said, I believe that the Bible is true on the subjects that lie therein.

So you think that the OT laws were truly commanded by God?
.

Yes I do.

I'll have to pick this up later though.. good night