(April 23, 2013 at 11:29 pm)Tex Wrote:

Maelstrom Wrote:One's existence is no more proof of a deity's existence than the world around us.

I think they're equally self evident.

Unfortunately the question on the table is why should we think that?

Physical reality is self evident as externally existing because of my lack of mental control. I cannot imagine a hot pocket in front of me and then eat said hot pocket. I affect reality and then reality affects me.

God is evident from the fact there is something outside of me. I exist. Other stuff exists. Where did the existence comes from? If they were just simply here, what allows them to do that?

This isn't the argument I was proposing earlier though. Keep critiquing the other one. I know the necessary being argument is valid, but my argument by statistics is new. Work on that one.

Though external to you, your hot pocket would be evidently and verifiably existent through the application of your senses: you would be able to smell it, see it, feel it, taste it. Someone else would, if asked, confirm this existence similarly.

By the same criteria, the existence of this god of which you speak would be...

...

... what, exactly? The existence of all that "other stuff" is proof of the existence of other stuff. Not exactly groundbreaking - and certanly not proof of any god.

Oh, and please try not to tell me what to do and say. That's not nice.

(April 23, 2013 at 11:45 pm)Tex Wrote: Where did the existence comes from?

I can understand your inability to accept that the universe has possibly always existed, and that earth was created as a result of a Big Bang, but claiming that a deity is the creator that always existed would also contradict your claim that the existence around us could not have always existed. Just because science does not yet have all the answers does not mean that a deity is the answer. Choosing the deity route with no evidence to back up the claim is pure laziness.

(April 23, 2013 at 11:45 pm)Tex Wrote: God is evident from the fact there is something outside of me. I exist. Other stuff exists. Where did the existence comes from? If they were just simply here, what allows them to do that?

This is nothing but simple shifting of the burden of proof. A common and familiar creature, easily recognised by its distinctive wailing cry and unkempt plumage. Traditionally regarded as a bird of ill omen, as its appearance in a discussion often signifies approaching defeat.

Was it DP that proposed the apologist drinking game? Because in that one reply you quoted Stimbo - had I been playing, I'd already be beyond the legal limit to drive home.

-Non seq segueyed into two ipse dix, followed up with an attempt to shift - then, impressively, and ad ig to seal the deal.-

This -now drunk- judge gives a score of 9-10, specifically for having stuck the landing like a pro, after assembling a reply that was -entirely- comprised of common logical fallacies.

(April 23, 2013 at 11:45 pm)Tex Wrote: God is evident from the fact there is something outside of me. I exist. Other stuff exists. Where did the existence comes from? If they were just simply here, what allows them to do that?

That is an infinite argument that would apply to god and his creator and his creator and his creator and his creator and his creator and his creator and so on infinitely.

So what does explain this reality of ours?

The truth is, I don't know the answer. The truth is, you don't know the answer.

I do know what the answer isn't, however, and that is religion.

It's also safe to say that, whatever is responsible for the existence of the universe, isn't something that is, at all, invested in the human struggle and doesn't really meet the most accepted definition of a god.

The same way that it is impossible to truly grasp the infinite size of the universe or time, our existence and everything around us is probably even more difficult to grasp.

Doesn't stop us from making shit up to explain it. However, we should have enough sense to reject those fairy tales.

And, by the way, I hardly consider scientific theories to be the same thing as man made inventions about god. Theories are man's attempts to put the pieces together and gain a better understanding, which is pursuit important to evolution and the survival of our species.

(April 23, 2013 at 11:45 pm)Tex Wrote: God is evident from the fact there is something outside of me. I exist. Other stuff exists. Where did the existence comes from? If they were just simply here, what allows them to do that?

Well, I see you've got your religious affiliations as Christian up here... that's an additional claim, isn't it? Because "stuff exists" can only get you to a creator, not specifically the christian god. Even if we're charitable and accept your reasoning here exactly as it is, it's obviously not the end of the story. Either something additional happened to you to get you to christianity, or this is a post hoc rationalization that you mistakenly believe extends further than it does.

Consciosness is like a sparkl.
This sparkl has souce - fire.
Source cant be denied of something its creations have.
Darvins theorie is wrong.
Dead rock cant give life to consciosness that generates endless stream of toughts, desiers. Has ability to feel pain and happines. And hope that
someday it will he happy.
Consciosness created rock.
Consciosness - life. Rock- death.
Death cant lead to life its opposite.

Whoever invented poetry is spinning in his grave right about now.