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RE: Proving God Existence
April 22, 2013 at 2:34 am
(This post was last modified: April 22, 2013 at 2:59 am by Muslim Scholar.)
(April 20, 2013 at 8:46 am)paulpablo Wrote: Right if light cannot be reflected off him because he is not an object and it impossible then it's also impossible for him to effect anything else which is an object. How is that?
Can you prove that step by step as I did?
Quote:Also image may not have anything to do with light, you can have a mental image of something that involves no light, but if you want to use it in terms of our direct senses then the same would apply to hearing, or talking.
A Mental image is just a memory an approximation to a real image
Quote:Well my counter argument is god can have a son and reflect light, you just don't understand how.
You are again mixing science with logic
Let me explain more
We only know things from our experience and observation in the universe
A horse doesn't fly ( from our observation) so it may be possible that under other technology or laws a deity is defying these observation
But defying logic is completely different thing, it is not related to power or laws it is related to our definition of terms (just that)
God can turn a stick into a snake
but he cannot make a stick and a snake at the same time, because WE defined the two terms to be mutually exclusive
Quote:Why can't he live on earth as a creature?
Because the words "creature" and "God" are mutually exclusive.
(April 20, 2013 at 1:55 pm)Ryantology Wrote: This makes the unfounded assumption that the universe's beginning, as we understand it, is the true beginning and not the result of a collapsed universe or some other process. Maybe you did not understood my statements well, I considered this by putting E (Existence) which include the possibilities for other universes/objects
Let me make it simpler; just consider the number of events (any event) without thinking about the universe or time
The number of events must be finite so there is a first event.......... then continue the proof.
Quote:This is an intellectually empty set of equations once you assume that G must exist. You do not demonstrate the fact as you state it, you merely state that it must necessarily be true
I didn't state it, I proved it based on the disjoint theory
(April 20, 2013 at 2:46 pm)Simon Moon Wrote: (April 20, 2013 at 8:15 am)Muslim Scholar Wrote: A logical proof is the strongest evidence ever.
It is stronger than science, statistics or anything else.
Logic is a system for analyzing the validity and soundness of an argument. Sorry for the miss understanding
I'm not using the full definition of Logic in my proof
The proof is based on just one "Logical" premises
Logical Paradox are impossible to exist
Or in simpler words
two mutually exclusive propositions are propositions that logically cannot be true at the same time.
If you have a problem with the proof, you need to prove me wrong first.
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RE: Proving God Existence
April 22, 2013 at 1:24 pm
(This post was last modified: April 22, 2013 at 1:24 pm by The Grand Nudger.)
I love it, everytime some apologist tries to float the exact argument the last apologist tried to float and gets shot down they retreat to "no, you just didn't understand"
No, jackasses, you fucked the pooch and failed at your attempt.
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RE: Proving God Existence
April 22, 2013 at 2:16 pm
(This post was last modified: April 22, 2013 at 2:51 pm by paulpablo.)
Show me how you proved that god cannot reflect light and then I'll show you my proof that god cannot oscillate air molecules to create sound or create a flood.
I could go into this more deeply but I don't honestly think it's worth it.
By the way I anticipate your response will involve something along the lines of "god is not an object and is therefore not going to reflect light" well ok then I can just say with that logic god is not a material being or thing and can therefore not manipulate anything that is material.
A mental image doesn't have to be a memory, I can think of an image I've never seen before, technically speaking all images are mental images, the brain makes sense of what the light is reflected off but it is perfectly possible to see images which aren't there, I know this from taking mushrooms and acid, I have seen plenty of images that weren't there by reflected light or by memory.
Prove the words creature and god are mutually exclusive.
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RE: Proving God Existence
April 22, 2013 at 3:42 pm
I once read about a research into a device that looks into your retinas and, if you concentrate on an image, it can show you what image it is you're thinking about... then there was another that used brainwaves, but required some prior learning.
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RE: Proving God Existence
April 23, 2013 at 9:14 am
So is the argument essentially: 'everything had a beginning and so something must've caused it that is greater than everything, therefore this must be god'?
...or am I oversimplifying?
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RE: Proving God Existence
April 27, 2013 at 3:39 am
(April 23, 2013 at 9:14 am)Sansbury Wrote: So is the argument essentially: 'everything had a beginning and so something must've caused it that is greater than everything, therefore this must be god'?
...or am I oversimplifying? Not very accurate
A First event must have existed
Events cannot happen by itself
A Starter for events must exist
The Starter must be self sufficient
The Starter is outside the Universe/creation
The Starter is Unique
The Starter is not similar to anything we know (or imagine)
These are the conclusions, and the premises is just the disjoint theory.
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RE: Proving God Existence
April 27, 2013 at 3:47 am
(April 27, 2013 at 3:39 am)Muslim Scholar Wrote: A First event must have existed
Really lets look at your next line.
Quote:Events cannot happen by itself
This contradicts your first statement.
Quote:A Starter for events must exist
Again this contradicts what you said at the begginning. Do make your mind up.
Quote:The Starter must be self sufficient
What has a plot of land and a cow?
What are you saying here?
Quote:The Starter is outside the Universe/creation
Why?
Quote:The Starter is Unique
Why?
Quote:The Starter is not similar to anything we know (or imagine)
Why?
Quote:These are the conclusions, and the premises is just the disjoint theory.
You make conclusions based on no evidence.
You can fix ignorance, you can't fix stupid.
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RE: Proving God Existence
April 27, 2013 at 3:51 am
(This post was last modified: April 27, 2013 at 3:53 am by Muslim Scholar.)
(April 22, 2013 at 2:16 pm)paulpablo Wrote: Show me how you proved that god cannot reflect light and then I'll show you my proof that god cannot oscillate air molecules to create sound or create a flood.
I could go into this more deeply but I don't honestly think it's worth it.
By the way I anticipate your response will involve something along the lines of "god is not an object and is therefore not going to reflect light" well ok then I can just say with that logic god is not a material being or thing and can therefore not manipulate anything that is material.
A mental image doesn't have to be a memory, I can think of an image I've never seen before, technically speaking all images are mental images, the brain makes sense of what the light is reflected off but it is perfectly possible to see images which aren't there, I know this from taking mushrooms and acid, I have seen plenty of images that weren't there by reflected light or by memory.
Prove the words creature and god are mutually exclusive. You don't see the power of this proof
I don't need to prove that, because they are AXIOMS
We (humans) defined the words Creator & Creature to be mutually exclusive
If you have different terms or usage you need to state them.
(April 27, 2013 at 3:47 am)downbeatplumb Wrote: You make conclusions based on no evidence. You need to go back and read the proof
then specify which step is not leading to the next.
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RE: Proving God Existence
April 27, 2013 at 8:36 am
(April 27, 2013 at 3:51 am)Muslim Scholar Wrote: (April 22, 2013 at 2:16 pm)paulpablo Wrote: Show me how you proved that god cannot reflect light and then I'll show you my proof that god cannot oscillate air molecules to create sound or create a flood.
I could go into this more deeply but I don't honestly think it's worth it.
By the way I anticipate your response will involve something along the lines of "god is not an object and is therefore not going to reflect light" well ok then I can just say with that logic god is not a material being or thing and can therefore not manipulate anything that is material.
A mental image doesn't have to be a memory, I can think of an image I've never seen before, technically speaking all images are mental images, the brain makes sense of what the light is reflected off but it is perfectly possible to see images which aren't there, I know this from taking mushrooms and acid, I have seen plenty of images that weren't there by reflected light or by memory.
Prove the words creature and god are mutually exclusive. You don't see the power of this proof
I don't need to prove that, because they are AXIOMS
We (humans) defined the words Creator & Creature to be mutually exclusive
If you have different terms or usage you need to state them.
(April 27, 2013 at 3:47 am)downbeatplumb Wrote: You make conclusions based on no evidence. You need to go back and read the proof
then specify which step is not leading to the next.
Ok so now all you have to do is show me when all of humanity universally agreed that a creature and a god are mutually exclusive, show me where you proved god cannot reflect light, and explain yourself when you say mental images aren't images they are just memories, because I disagreed with you, I said they don't have to be memories.
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RE: Proving God Existence
April 27, 2013 at 9:00 am
You can fix ignorance, you can't fix stupid.
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