(May 18, 2013 at 1:21 pm)apophenia Wrote: apophenia...............You ignored my question as to how you know this to be true about the possible evolution of a robot, and continue to spout dogma.

(May 21, 2013 at 7:55 am)enrico Wrote: There is material-physical evolution and there is spiritual evolution.
You are talking about the first while i am talking about the latter.

This is not an answer to a "how" question.

(May 21, 2013 at 7:55 am)enrico Wrote: Who care if the vehicle is driven by an other vehicle?
In this way there can not be any spiritual progress because there is no one with consciousness to progress.

Nor is this an answer to the "how" question that was asked, but simply a bare assertion on an unrelated matter. You've simply asserted that no spiritual progress can occur without a mind. That may be true, but it doesn't answer the original question that I asked.

( I might ask how you know this as well, but let's take one question at a time.)

(May 21, 2013 at 7:55 am)enrico Wrote: I am sure that in the near future babies will born in laboratories with a soul and consciousness but this will be different from your robot which is programmed by humans to do only the right thing.

Do you find it surprising that you are certain of some of the things that you believe to be true? Would it surprise you to know that I am certain of some of the things that I believe to be true? Would it surprise you to find that some of the things of which I am certain are true are in fact not true? I'm fairly confident that some things that I'm certain are true are not actually true, so my being certain that something is true is no real guarantee that it is true. If I told you that I was certain that something was true, would you believe me on that basis? Should I believe that something you say is true just because you are certain it is true? If you doubt what I say, even if I'm certain of it, why shouldn't I doubt what you say, even if you are certain that what you say is true? Everybody on the earth believes what they believe, and they believe what they believe to be true, many times with great certainty. How is your believing what you believe to be true any different from the other 6 billion people who are doing the exact same thing? If you cannot give me a reason, what choice do I have but to put your assertions on an equal footing with theirs, and alongside my own? Why should I treat your assertions any differently?

Regardless, again, you have not answered the "how" question which was put to you, about how you know that a robotic consciousness cannot be evolved. Instead, you've simply mouthed empty assertions and gobbledy-gook such as I many times hear from people who believe themselves spiritual, but who are really just engaged in mental masturbation.

You have failed to answer the question. I will repeat it for you. "How do you know that it is true that a robot cannot evolve a mind or consciousness?" (without intentional programming of that mind/consciousness by another mind or consciousness)

How do you know? Don't tell me that you know — I'm perfectly willing to accept that you are certain of what you believe — I'm interested in how you know that your certainty in this matter is reliable.

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(May 21, 2013 at 7:55 am)enrico Wrote:

(May 18, 2013 at 1:21 pm)apophenia Wrote: I've been practicing yoga for 30 years, and my conclusion is that you are deluded and wrong. Yay, yoga!

After what you are writing i doubt very much that you know what yoga is but tell me......what yoga have you been practicing and what is the meaning of yoga, please tell me out of your heart-mind not by looking at wikipedia or else.

I see. So you are telling me that you don't believe I am telling the truth. In other words, you are calling me a liar. (If I don't know what yoga is, it would be a lie to say I've been practicing it.) You are faced with someone who has also practiced yoga, which appears to be your sole foundation for your believing what you say is true, and, you believe that your yogic practice has led you to a knowledge of these things. When faced with someone who also practices yoga but believes differently, you resolve the dilemma by accusing them of lying and accuse them of engaging in unethical behavior. Pardon me if that seems to me a rather childish and poor way out. Is it your yoga that teaches you to accuse others of lying if doing so will get you out of having to defend your views? If so, I think there might be something wrong with your yoga. Or perhaps, the yoga is fine, and the problem is simply you. But that does open up another question. Even if I assume that yoga, and particularly your yoga, leads to truth and knowledge, how do I know that it has led you, specifically, to truth and knowledge? How do you know that it has? You believe it has, but everybody on this planet believes that what they believe is true, regardless of what they believe. How do you know that you haven't simply been doing it wrong, and that if you had been doing it right all these 40 years, it would have led you to different beliefs? How do you know?

Regardless, the nature of my yoga is not hidden. The nature of my yoga is clearly visible. If you cannot tell me the nature of my yoga, I can only presume that you are blind and cannot see.

What is the nature of my yoga?

Quote:apophenia..................What is the nature of my yoga?

It is very limited and it is like the one of a student that studying only one subject out of all the subjects that suppose to study say..........I KNOW AND I AM COMPETENT AND KNOWLEDGEABLE IN MY STUDIES.
Unfortunately for you it does not work like this.
You probably do only yoga exercises which by the way are called asanas.
To practice the real yoga one has got to practice tantric meditation, asanas, vegan or vegetarian diet, and other things that help in the effort to reach the ultimate goal.
The real meaning of yoga is UNION WITH THE INFINTY.
This union is consciousness union not body union so when you ask me how i do know that a robot can not develop a consciousness you automatically show that you have no idea what yoga is and therefore you show that what you practice is not real yoga.
The consciousness come after million of years of development from matter to vegetable life to animal life to human life so if you make a robot without taking into account this factor is obvious that your robot has no consciousness from the very start.
To develop something with conscious in a laboratory it is important to be able to introduce the conscious of a creature that has already develop his-her conscious previously.
This is something that your robot is lacking.
How do you do?
I do not know that is why i said that in the near future it will be done but only when science and spirituality work together.
At the moment science is not working along these lines that is why so far is not possible to produce anything material able to develop consciousness.

(May 22, 2013 at 5:46 pm)apophenia Wrote: Instead, you've simply mouthed empty assertions and gobbledy-gook such as I many times hear from people who believe themselves spiritual, but who are really just engaged in mental masturbation.

Yes.

(May 24, 2013 at 9:06 am)enrico Wrote: The real meaning of yoga is UNION WITH THE INFINTY.

And the wonder is that you can think you've actually said anything that should be relevant or meaningful to anyone else.

I'm made out of star stuff. I'm as much a part of this universe and existence as anything else in it. I am already as in union with 'the infinity' as it is possible to be.

(May 24, 2013 at 1:47 pm)Ryantology Wrote: I'm made out of star stuff. I'm as much a part of this universe and existence as anything else in it. I am already as in union with 'the infinity' as it is possible to be.

That's like, deep man.

Now do your stretches.

So the religious are stuck in their ways and atheists are just going through a phase.....well thanks for the waste of time

(May 24, 2013 at 9:06 am)enrico Wrote: The real meaning of yoga is UNION WITH THE INFINTY.

Well, shit. You don't need yoga for that. You just need the right kind of mushroom.

(May 17, 2013 at 8:50 am)enrico Wrote: And now an atheist dogma..........i can not see or perceive God so it does not exist.
Well, maybe if you try to look inside and not outside you may well start to perceive that essence.[/color]

"I do not believe your claims that a deity you worship exists because you have not brought verifiable evidence to the table. I will thus reject the claim that your god exists until such a time that evidence is forthcoming so I can re-reevaluate my position."

Dogmatic.

No more validated that this guy


Major fail enrico

(May 24, 2013 at 1:47 pm)Ryantology Wrote: I'm made out of star stuff. I'm as much a part of this universe and existence as anything else in it. I am already as in union with 'the infinity' as it is possible to be.

It is very interesting to see how our brain works.
Our senses bring to the brain whatever message they capture.
If the eyes capture a blur image the brain will receive a blur image.
If the ears capture a static sound like when the radio station is not tune up properly then it will receive a static sound or a distorted sound.
And so on with all our senses and physical-mental receptors.
If this situation continue for a long time the brain will tell our consciousness that this is normal so we come to think that these distortions are the normal and nothing can be any better.
WRONG of course but how do we know that this is not normal if we never experience the NORMAL?
How can you say that you are already in tune with the infinty and experience the normal when in fact you never try to get in tune with the infinity?

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Quote:Fidel_Castronaut........."I do not believe your claims that a deity you worship exists because you have not brought verifiable evidence to the table. I will thus reject the claim that your god exists until such a time that evidence is forthcoming so I can re-reevaluate my position."Dogmatic.

It would be good for you if i could bring evidence to your TABLE but unfortunately for you you are the only one that will be able to bring this evidence to the TABLE or better up to your consciousness.
Materially speaking i could show you a nugget of gold to prove that the gold exist but spiritually speaking the gold is hidden within your essence and you are the only one that is able to bring it up to your TABLE.