What are the forum thoughts on the Woolwich killing?

BBC news item

For those who don't know, a man was beheaded in Woolwich, London, UK in what appears to be a religio-political killing by Islamic extremists. One of the killers gave an 'interview' immediately after the killing and the video has been widely distributed (see the link).This has sparked widespread anti-islamic sentiment across the UK resulting in demonstrations by right-wing groups and counter-demonstrations by pro-islamic and human-rights groups. In the meantime, muslims across the UK (especially London) appear to be in fear of reprisals, although none have been reported yet.

For me, I'm sickened both by the killing and the bigotry.

Give ...me....some...time...to ....become ....coherent

(May 23, 2013 at 8:18 am)Ben Davis Wrote: What are the forum thoughts on the Woolwich killing?

BBC news item

For those who don't know, a man was beheaded in Woolwich, London, UK in what appears to be a religio-political killing by Islamic extremists. One of the killers gave an 'interview' immediately after the killing and the video has been widely distributed (see the link).This has sparked widespread anti-islamic sentiment across the UK resulting in demonstrations by right-wing groups and counter-demonstrations by pro-islamic and human-rights groups. In the meantime, muslims across the UK (especially London) appear to be in fear of reprisals, although none have been reported yet.

For me, I'm sickened both by the killing and the bigotry.

The EDL have attacked some mosques in the area, because, you know, they're such great logical guys.

Overall I'm pretty sickened, both by the event and also by the calls for "send them back to their own country" [they were both British of Nigerian descent...born in the UK and raised here...].

Just highlights the need to have a much larger and wider discourse about integration and engagement between people in British society today. For too long self-imposed and forced segregation has destroyed our inner cities (I'm from London and live in Birmingham, both arguably two of the most segregated cities in the UK in some wards). It's time the UK had a frank and open discussion, to expose the extremism waiting underneath the surface and foster a much more open, free thinking scientific society that doesn't shy away from exposing and criticising beliefs and belief systems, whatever they might be.

I think it was perpetrated by two loons who took their faith too seriously.

Yet, they've "played" right into the hands of the right-wingers who have been against immigration from day one because of some nationalistic ideal. I reckon it's only gonna give them more "legitimacy" to push for more anti-immigration bullshit and try to segregate the community even more.

I live in an almost completely homogeneous country, where most are descendants of the Norse Vikings. Yet, I have a hard time understanding the right-wing nationalistic views, mostly because we have a history of treating the few immigrants we get as guests, more than our countrymen. Sure, we get the same right-wing rhetoric other European countries get, which only has worsened the standard of living for them here; damn, I hate right-wingers for that.

(May 23, 2013 at 8:38 am)Sal Wrote: I think it was perpetrated by two loons who took their faith too seriously.

Yet, they've "played" right into the hands of the right-wingers who have been against immigration from day one because of some nationalistic ideal. I reckon it's only gonna give them more "legitimacy" to push for more anti-immigration bullshit and try to segregate the community even more.

I live in an almost completely homogeneous country, where most are descendants of the Norse Vikings. Yet, I have a hard time understanding the right-wing nationalistic views, mostly because we have a history of treating the few immigrants we get as guests, more than our countrymen. Sure, we get the same right-wing rhetoric other European countries get, which only has worsened the standard of living for them here; damn, I hate right-wingers for that.

Terrorists want to play into the hands of the right-wingers as they often see any violent reactions from these groups will vindicate their claim: "the West is waging war on Islam".

(May 23, 2013 at 8:29 am)Fidel_Castronaut Wrote: The EDL have attacked some mosques in the area, because, you know, they're such great logical guys.

Thanks for the update. I'll have to catch up on the news this eve.

Quote:Just highlights the need to have a much larger and wider discourse about integration and engagement between people in British society today.

It also highlights the need for such discussion regarding the role of the islamic teachings which are claimed to feed such killings: the so-called 'preachments of hate'. It's clear that islam has teachings which can mandate and even encourage such murderous behaviour however there can be sociological controls. Using UK christianity as an analogy: although the bible has similar 'preachments of hate', you don't see priests calling for the death of those who oppose christianity. It appears that society has decided (IMO rightly!) that the bible is wrong on such preachments and UK christianity has consequently changed its overall behaviour to match. It's true to say that the majority of muslims are not murderous psychopaths like the extremists so could there be a similar 'directed evolution' ('intelligent design'?) of UK islam until it really is a religion of peace?

Quote:For too long self-imposed and forced segregation has destroyed our inner cities (I'm from London and live in Birmingham, both arguably two of the most segregated cities in the UK in some wards).

Yes, both religion and the poorly thought through government social housing programmes (along with capitalism!) are generally to blame for this. Free & open discourse backed by social & government action has to be the way forward.

(May 23, 2013 at 11:14 am)Ben Davis Wrote: It's clear that islam has teachings which can mandate and even encourage such murderous behaviour however there can be sociological controls. Using UK christianity as an analogy: although the bible has similar 'preachments of hate', you don't see priests calling for the death of those who oppose christianity.

mmhmm I've been to dozens and dozens of mosques up and down the country, and I'm yet to find an Imam who "preaches hate" or "calling for the death of those who oppose Islam". Can you tell me why that is? I'm just wondering where these mosques are that teach this stuff.

(May 23, 2013 at 11:47 am)ideologue08 Wrote:

(May 23, 2013 at 11:14 am)Ben Davis Wrote: It's clear that islam has teachings which can mandate and even encourage such murderous behaviour however there can be sociological controls. Using UK christianity as an analogy: although the bible has similar 'preachments of hate', you don't see priests calling for the death of those who oppose christianity.

mmhmm I've been to dozens and dozens of mosques up and down the country, and I'm yet to find an Imam who "preaches hate" or "calling for the death of those who oppose Islam". Can you tell me why that is? I'm just wondering where these mosques are that teach this stuff.

heres one.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/North_Londo...ral_Mosque

Quote:Until 2005 it was known as Finsbury Park Mosque. The mosque was riven with leadership disputes in the 1990s, allowing extremist Islamist preachers (many of whom were refugees from the Algerian Civil War) to take it over. In 1996 they installed Abu Hamza al-Masri as imam of the mosque, which subsequently developed a reputation as a centre of radical Islamism in London.

(May 23, 2013 at 11:51 am)downbeatplumb Wrote: heres one.

No, Finsbury park mosque incident was a long time ago, I want to know here I can go now if I want Imams of hate, which mosque? And moreover, what Abu Hamza did was vile, he was inciting hatred, but does that justify killing an Imam in Finsbury Park because of that?

(May 23, 2013 at 11:47 am)ideologue08 Wrote:

(May 23, 2013 at 11:14 am)Ben Davis Wrote: It's clear that islam has teachings which can mandate and even encourage such murderous behaviour however there can be sociological controls. Using UK christianity as an analogy: although the bible has similar 'preachments of hate', you don't see priests calling for the death of those who oppose christianity.

mmhmm I've been to dozens and dozens of mosques up and down the country, and I'm yet to find an Imam who "preaches hate" or "calling for the death of those who oppose Islam". Can you tell me why that is? I'm just wondering where these mosques are that teach this stuff.

They are there, it's just they get undue credit; most of them are Wahhabis and similar ultra-conservatives who are analogous to Christian abortion clinic bombers.

In my experience every Muslim I encountered were moderates. I blame the corporate news outlets for the skewed picture.