(November 27, 2008 at 6:35 pm)CoxRox Wrote: Bloody hell. There's a lot of for and against for this Horus stuff. I'm going to have my work cut out with this......

I came to mixed conclusions too. Though to be honest, when you take all the gods together (and watching the video fully does this) you have to admit that there are a lot of striking similarities between their stories and Christs. The film "The God Who Wasn't There", which takes the position that Christ never even existed (a position I disagree with) has more accurate historical data for the comparison between the ancient gods and Jesus (it just comes to the wrong conclusion about his existence).

(November 27, 2008 at 5:21 pm)CoxRox Wrote: http://www.kingdavid8.com/Copycat/JesusHorus.html

At the bottom of the page they note:

'By the way, I had a discussion about this list with Acharya S, the author of the book "The Christ Conspiracy: The Greatest Story Ever Sold". To view a text of our discussion, go to this site. ' (There is a link to view their discussion.)

I'll look further into this. Have either of you two gentlemen 'tested' these copy cat claims for yourselves?

Acharya S is hardly original or even new. Her scholarship is extremely poor. I think her market is poor uninformed Atheists. Check her facts. They don't add up. Scholars of mythology as the Bible will agree. She says things like a certain mythical god was born on Xmas the same as Jesus when in fact neither was said to have been born on Xmas. Etc.

(November 27, 2008 at 6:53 pm)leo-rcc Wrote: Hello Ihatejesus. Welcome to the forum

I don't hate anyone, and certainly not someone who may not even have existed.

Leo, you disappoint me in your choice of words, for " may not even have existed ". I would prefer " almost certainly doesn't exist ".

What evidence do you present to dispute the existence of Jesus exactly bozo?

Well Bozo, I'm sorry you feel that way but I given there were a lot of preachers and so-called messiahs around, odds are a man named Jesus who preached to Jews in early iron age middle east has existed. That he performed the miracles as described in the NT is a different issue.

"He is the true messiah, I should know, I followed quite a few of them".

I've just been watching some more of Zeitgeist and I'm not going to continue for now as my first priority is learning about evolution, plus it's rather off putting that so much of what I've just been watching of Zeitgeist is completely wrong and does not represent true Christianity. For example: Jesus most certainly was not born on Dec 25th so all their stuff about it is absolutely meaningless!! (Many incorrect things were added centuries after Jesus by 'pagans' trying to marry the two belief systems together. Crosses are known to precede the Romans and the word for cross has been mistranslated in most Bibles and should more correctly read 'stake'. Even if that is not correct and the word can be translated 'cross' this was one of the methods the Romans used so I have no problem with this. The early Christians did not use 'cross' symbols anyway. 'Easter' is not in the bible and is pagan so again, nothing to do with Jesus! They seem to be doing exactly what the 911 conspiracy theorists do: make associations based on inaccurate information (e.g 'there was no tv set in the school so that Bush could have seen the plane' - I have a photo of Bush outside the classroom next to a tv- and I managed to find compelling evidence to debunk all of the 911 claims). So I will return to this as I will find great pleasure in hopefully debunking it. If the exact similarities do turn out to be true (at the minute there seems grave doubt that they are) then I will accept that Jesus or the claims about Jesus etc is not true. ( I've already read up on Mithras and it seems the dates for many of these 'similar' gods actually date 'after' Jesus and not before, but I will double check all this as well.

That depends on which Mitra version you look, otherwise you would be wrong by about 1400 years.

(November 27, 2008 at 8:33 pm)Tiberius Wrote: What evidence do you present to dispute the existence of Jesus exactly bozo?

Adrian, I mean Jesus as the son of god,born of a virgin, living, doing miracles, dying, coming alive again, becoming part of the holy trinity.
Stuff like that.

My source for the later dating comes from Lee Strobel's book: 'The Case for the Real Jesus'. He interviews an Edwin M. Yamauchi, PH.D whose credentials I'll not bother to type up but are long and impressive. I will say he has 'delivered eighty-eight papers on Mithraism'. 'Award-winning historian Paul Maier said Yamauchi wields ''crystal logic and hard, potent evidence,'' adding: No one in the academic world today can better sniff out sensationalism in place of sense, excesses beyond the evidence, and speculation instead of scholarship. Whatever historical or theological fad might come along- and so many have!- one brilliant article by Yamauchi supplies the evidence to skewer any bloated pretensions against the cause of truth.'

Yamauchi says: 'Mithraism was a late Roman mystery religion....which became a chief rival to Christianity in the second century and later.' It's an interesting chapter and I will check all this properly once I have time.

Take my advice, forget Strobel. For apologetics you are better off with McDowell, he at least makes a serious effort.

Mythras in the Greaco-roman version was around the same era as the Jesus story, but Mitra has had many variations dating back as far as 1400 BC.