(June 12, 2013 at 5:02 pm)Godschild Wrote: I do not accept evolution period, I believe it's made up science without anything to prove it.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=STeY6vSMk5A

(June 13, 2013 at 9:12 am)Drich Wrote: That said if you wanted to meet the President, do you think you could just text him and he drop everything he was doing to come proove himself to you.. Or do you think there is a proceedure you must first subject yourself to in order to meet Him? If we understand we have to respect the proceedures in place to meet a simple leader of a country, then why do we assume the Master and Commander of ALL of creation is at our beckon call?

Well, the POTUS is a busy man and there are only so many hours in the day. It's not like he's so omnipotent that words like 'not having enough time' or 'being too busy' or 'can't get to everybody' or 'too much effort' don't apply to him.

(June 13, 2013 at 11:05 am)Rahul Wrote: Did the Smithsonian also mention where the real fossils that were used to make those replicas were located?

There are several examples of whole intact peices (80 to 85% of the skeletal structure accounted for) in various museums around the world, but everything there at the Smithsonian in DC at the time of my visit was contructed from a compliation of different examples or different dig sites. Most of that stuff are in underground vaults. They rotated different examples in their display cases. Outside of private collections real dino remains are never displayed like that.

Quote:Say you have a dozen full fossilized Stegasaurus skeletons found. Three thousand museums want one for their permanent display. What do you do?

I did not say that I said there were only a few Complete examples of dinosaurs period. Nothing like the stegasaurus in the picture.

(June 13, 2013 at 9:12 am)Drich Wrote: That said if you wanted to meet the President, do you think you could just text him and he drop everything he was doing to come proove himself to you.. Or do you think there is a proceedure you must first subject yourself to in order to meet Him? If we understand we have to respect the proceedures in place to meet a simple leader of a country, then why do we assume the Master and Commander of ALL of creation is at our beckon call?

(Bolding mine)

But he has plenty of time to listen to your prayers?

By the way, I will be going on a dinosaur dig next Friday. Care to join me?

(June 13, 2013 at 10:28 am)Drich Wrote:

(June 13, 2013 at 9:50 am)orogenicman Wrote: So you are saying that titles mean nothing. That a title to a book, or a thread, is not intended to give the reader an idea of what is inside? Isn't that a bit dishonest?

Don't judge a book by it's cover or in this case do not judge a thread by it's title is an axiom that says do not prejudge a given text by it's appearance or title.

The only dishonest here is the intelectual dishonesty one participates in when he trys and force this thread or the subject matter of this thread from the OP's intend course, to one of his own making. (What your trying to do now)

See below

orogenicman Wrote:No, actually, and going on the question raised in the OP, the discussion was the center around "A world without god". You choose to make it otherwise.

Quote:The OP ask or spins the atheist question "If God is omni max then why do bad things happen to good people.?" I ask in your world what is you explaination? Then I ask why could these same reason apply in a world with God.

Yes, we are all aware that you are being dishonest by trying to spin a yarn that makes atheists appear to say or believe something other than what they actually say or believe. Regardless, the fact is that you ask the question of what a world without god looks like. The only answer to that question is that it looks exactly like the world we have.

orogenicman Wrote:Every intellectual endeavor evokes some sort of emotional response, be it amazement, curiosity, or any of a dozen such responses.

Quote:Not what I said. I said if the intelectual validity of the answers your are providing HING (Will not work any other way) on the emotion generated by being in a very specific place, then I call your answers into question.

This is a perfect example of you misinterpreting what I am saying. ALL intellectual endeavors endears curiosity, amazement, wonder, etc, but is also a result of human curiosity, amazement, wonder, etc. If we were not as curious about our world as we are, no discoveries would ever have been made, and we'd still be living in trees. Einstein once said:

"The true sign of intelligence is not knowledge but imagination."

Imagination drives our thirst for knowledge. Given the evolution of the human brain, it cannot be otherwise.

Quote:Look at it this way if i said you had to 'feel' the presents of God and the emotion generated by being in The Holy Land or where ever, If and only IF I take you there and explain/plant these feelings in you, as the ONLY way to know of God.. I would be laugh (and rightly so) off of this board. (Que Rythm or FNM)

And to that I would say that not going is the cowardly way out of your predicament, since if you actually went to the "holy land" and saw the barbarous behavior that is taking place there, you too might question the existence of a merciful god.

The fact of the matter is that geology is and always will be a "hands on" scientific discipline. You can understand the law of superposition without actually going into the field, but studying it in a laboratory or a classroom, or reading about it on the internet cannot convey the sheer wonder that the law even works like it does when you see it first hand. Perhaps you have such a hard time with this concept because you've always gotten your "knowledge" by other means, i.e., second and third hand. And because of that, you cannot truly appreciate the intellectual and emotional impact of first hand discovery. You have my sympathy.

orogenicman Wrote:Perhaps if you had intellectual experiences outside your own narrow world view, you'd come to understand this very simple concept.

Drcih Wrote:Oh, lawd he dun found me out.

It isn't rocket science, dude.

orogenicman Wrote:Because you are clearly attempting to make it appear that all the billions of fossils that have been discovered have, by some deviant conspiracy, been manufactured.

Quote:Nope. Not what I said. I said I went to the Smithsonian and they told me 2/3's of their display were fake.

That, of course, is a lie. You are undoubtedly twisting what they told you. They are not fakes. They are reproductions of real fossils.

Quote:I also pointed out that stegasaurs that was being posted as proof there could not be a God, was also fake.

A reproduction, a model, not a fake. But if it is real dinosaurs you want, I invite you to go to the Museum of the Rockies where they have real dinosaurs skeletons on display. And if it is real fossils you want, come to Kentucky and I can show you all the real fossils in-situ that you can stomach.

Quote:I am simply trying to invoke thought. To peel back the smoke and mirrors and get you people to think on your own. You all look like a bunch of Dumb A$$es pointing to these fiberglass momuments as definitive proof, and most of you don't even know what is really out there. Because you blindly swallow everything that comes in the 'education' format as truth. Talking about blind faith.

If I thought for a minute that that was your intention, there would be no argument from me. It is clear that that is not your intention. Try again.

Quote:What is wrong with letting people actual see and know or even rattle some foundations to where people at least google search something they though to be absolute proof?

The fact that you believe you are rattling foundations by making a Mr. Obvious statement without fully grasping what you are actually saying, that's just sad.

orogenicman Wrote:Go into the field with me and I will show you that they are NOT manufactured. Come one, grasshopper. Be a man. what are you afraid of?

Drich Wrote:Butt rape by some creepy rock guy. You know my sister was 9 she was almost talked into a van to help a guy look for his puppy with a similar line.

Wow, that simply takes my breath away. How old are you, again? Look, if that is the kind of sophomoric thing you are concerned about, bring a friend. Bring as many friends as you like. The more the merrier. Jeez, dude, not everyone has the desire to see what is inside your pants. I am certainly not one of them. Time to grow up, don't you think?

(June 13, 2013 at 12:22 pm)Drich Wrote:

(June 13, 2013 at 11:05 am)Rahul Wrote: Did the Smithsonian also mention where the real fossils that were used to make those replicas were located?

There are several examples of whole intact peices (80 to 85% of the skeletal structure accounted for) in various museums around the world, but everything there at the Smithsonian in DC at the time of my visit was contructed from a compliation of different examples or different dig sites. Most of that stuff are in underground vaults. They rotated different examples in their display cases. Outside of private collections real dino remains are never displayed like that.

Quote:Say you have a dozen full fossilized Stegasaurus skeletons found. Three thousand museums want one for their permanent display. What do you do?

I did not say that I said there were only a few Complete examples of dinosaurs period. Nothing like the stegasaurus in the picture.

Cool. So you believe dinosaurs were real. So what's the problem?

(June 13, 2013 at 12:22 pm)Drich Wrote:

(June 13, 2013 at 11:05 am)Rahul Wrote: Did the Smithsonian also mention where the real fossils that were used to make those replicas were located?

There are several examples of whole intact peices (80 to 85% of the skeletal structure accounted for) in various museums around the world, but everything there at the Smithsonian in DC at the time of my visit was contructed from a compliation of different examples or different dig sites. Most of that stuff are in underground vaults. They rotated different examples in their display cases. Outside of private collections real dino remains are never displayed like that.

Quote:Say you have a dozen full fossilized Stegasaurus skeletons found. Three thousand museums want one for their permanent display. What do you do?

I did not say that I said there were only a few Complete examples of dinosaurs period. Nothing like the stegasaurus in the picture.

Wait... So because paleontologists look at a stegosaurus skeleton with, lets say a missing rear left leg, and compare it with a different stegosaurus with a missing front right leg, they can't put the two together to get an idea of what the animal probably looked like??? You're right there aren't a lot of examples of complete fossilized dinos (it's hard to last, entirely complete for tens or hundreds of millions of years), but there are a lot of partial examples. Scientists can identify what dinosaur it was based on comparing skeletal structure, and put the various pieces together, forming a complete picture.
The Smithsonian has a basement used for storage, but mainly to work on the pieces going up to the exhibits. It also has an attic, but that's mainly offices. The majority of its collections reside in an off-site facility, not the basement. It's a big building, but not that big. They have specimen collections of almost every genus and species, both skeletal specimens as well as those stored in jars with preservatives (which are highly flammable, it would be a public health hazard to have them stored at the museum, light a match, museum goes BOOM!). That's a ton of animals. Then you get into the rock collections... Too much for the building on the Mall.

So, given my responses, Drich, let's summarize the reasons you refuse to take a field geology excursion with me, and possibly others:

1) I think it wise to not go on a field trip with someone who does not know the difference between a resin mock up and actual fossilized remains

2) Butt rape by some creepy rock guy.

Are there any other reasons anyone here can think of why he would not want to see real fossils in the field, in-situ? Any at all?

Drich. Are you ready to reveal the REAL reason why you are afraid to take a field trip to learn something about geology first hand?

(June 13, 2013 at 11:40 am)Mister Agenda Wrote:

(June 13, 2013 at 9:12 am)Drich Wrote: That said if you wanted to meet the President, do you think you could just text him and he drop everything he was doing to come proove himself to you.. Or do you think there is a proceedure you must first subject yourself to in order to meet Him? If we understand we have to respect the proceedures in place to meet a simple leader of a country, then why do we assume the Master and Commander of ALL of creation is at our beckon call?

Well, the POTUS is a busy man and there are only so many hours in the day. It's not like he's so omnipotent that words like 'not having enough time' or 'being too busy' or 'can't get to everybody' or 'too much effort' don't apply to him.

But you would think If an "Omni -Max" God says do X then your obligated to do X.. It's not that God can't, He simply won't until you bend that knee and do as you are told.

(June 13, 2013 at 1:05 pm)Drich Wrote: But you would think If an "Omni -Max" God says do X then your obligated to do X.

You keep sidestepping this question asked by others, and I will ask it again:

If God asks you to kill someone, will you kill that person or will you accept burning in hell for disobeying Him?