Ah, those aren't believers though TW, those are gullible fools who think they are Christians living in a Christian country, with no notion of what either means. A clever politician keeps everyone on board.

Quote:fools who think they are Christians living in a Christian country, with no notion of what either means.

True that most people are blind to the culture they operate within. In all honesty I think it's all a lie for people to believe they are moral and good. Given the promise of a reward after dying! and having invested so much effort into being so good; they just don't want question whether they were right to start with. My point is, if they weren't thinking with their bible they wouldn't be so ignorant and could make more informed/personal decisions.

Welcome to the forums Trust Worthy.

Do you consider yourself a very honest and trust worthy person?

Hi Amphora,
I think being truthful is a lot easier than being dishonest.
Trust worthiness would be circumstantial.

Who says people think they are moral and good? Christianity fosters the opposite idea. It also supposes that doing good has little or no impact on your salvation. People not thinking is always a problem. People making "personal" descisions not considering anyone else is a problem not a solution.

Christianity fosters the opposite idea Slap me silly and call me susie! Frodo I thought that people get their morals from the bible, and christians do good because of the bible. Is this not true? Is there something that I am not aware of?

Quote:fr0d0:
People not thinking is always a problem. People making "personal" descisions not considering anyone else is a problem not a solution.

You can think more than any other person in the world and not "solve" anything. What is this knowledge that people use for thinking with but other knowledge! Therefore it isn't to what frequency thinking eliminates problems but to what extent a person learns.
Furthermore, solving problems is only one way of dealing with something. There are entire subjects dedicated to 'problem and task' methods.

Christians do indeed get their moral guidance from the bible Suzie ().. and aim to do good inspired by it. That is a million miles away from their belief stance or anything they might do making them 'good'.

The idea that underpins Christianity that is fully explained in the Adam and Eve story is that people are not good by default.

@TW: Indeed. We shouldn't disregard our history and lessons that can be learned there, or disregard historical wisdom without considering it. Which brings religion back into the equation.

(December 21, 2009 at 7:45 pm)TruthWorthy Wrote: Hi Amphora,
I think being truthful is a lot easier than being dishonest.
Trust worthiness would be circumstantial.

Depends on what you mean by 'easier?'...

Welcome, nonetheless

Hi Saerules, thanks for the welcome.

Quote:Saerules:
Depends on what you mean by 'easier?'...

Depends on what was meant by 'honest' too

Quote:fr0d0:
re: We shouldn't disregard our history and lessons that can be learned there, or disregard historical wisdom without considering it. Which brings religion back into the equation.

This is a fundamentally flawed position many take up concerning religious belief; that all morality and intrinsic wisdom and goodness depend on religious belief. Societal values would live on without a bible. Surely, there's more to life than assuming everything depends on a single story!